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Two Tier’s days are numbered

657 replies

Jennps · 02/07/2025 06:37

Starmer will be gone by this time next year.

This government is imploding right before our eyes, despite a huge (but shallow) majority. People didn’t vote for Labour, as much as they voted against the diabolical Tories in the last election.

Coupled with that, the calibre of MPs in general, but especially the new Labour MPs is shockingly low. These are people who have never had real jobs, and found themselves accidentally in charge of the country. Most them would struggle to use a calculator, let alone understand how the economy works.

Bond markets are already punishing ‘Rachel from accounts’. Cue the insults about misogyny despite the fact that calling her from accounts is an insult to those who actually work in accounts. Gilts are already above when Truss was in charge, meaning the situation is worse. Crazy tax hikes are on the way. Top rate taxpayers are leaving the country in droves.

Boat crossings are at a record high. Unemployment is up, inflation is on the increase. The country is at very real risk of recession.

If Starmer falls, his replacement candidates are terrifying. It’s possible the government could fall within 2 years or so. The chances of Reform getting into power will increase many fold if there is a snap election in that timeframe.

Wonder if the economically illiterate, constantly wanting to constantly shake the magic money tree, are ready for Reform.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
11
EasternStandard · 02/07/2025 11:31

Sabire9 · 02/07/2025 11:27

@Soulfulunfurling

"The same could have been said for Labour but they are too badly infected by the far loony left for anyone to get anything done."

'Loony left'?

Put down your copy of the Telegraph mate.

By and large the economy has grown more under Labour over the past 30 years than it has under Conservatives, and public services have functioned better too.

It was Thatcher that sowed the seeds for so many of our current social problems, particularly housing.

In 1970 30% of the UK lived in council housing. If that figure was the same now, people in the bottom 3 deciles of the income distribution range would have vastly more disposable income, and local authority finances wouldn't be in a perpetual crisis as the result of having to subsidise low paid people's high housing costs in private rentals.

You neo-liberals caused this crisis. Stop whining about the left.

Is that what you’re after a gov further to the left?

And you think it’ll last economically

lifeonmars100 · 02/07/2025 11:30

I am profoundly disapointed with Labour and especially with Starmer . I would never vote Tory and they too had a large number of wholly inadequate MPs, Nadine Dorries, Jonathan Gullis, Lee "turncoat" Anderson, Michael Fabricant are just a few who spring to mind. And don't get me started on the corruption and chaos of Johnson's tenure at No 10. Oh and what about Liz Truss and her 49 days of damage? The thought of Farage in Downing Street is the stuff of nightmares, his skill base is being able to tune into the helpless and hopeless feeling that is so prevalent in the country so he can twist it and exploit his way to power. I think Starmer will be gone before Labour have done a full term but what happens than is anyone's guess.

Soulfulunfurling · 02/07/2025 11:29

Sabire9 · 02/07/2025 11:27

@Soulfulunfurling

"The same could have been said for Labour but they are too badly infected by the far loony left for anyone to get anything done."

'Loony left'?

Put down your copy of the Telegraph mate.

By and large the economy has grown more under Labour over the past 30 years than it has under Conservatives, and public services have functioned better too.

It was Thatcher that sowed the seeds for so many of our current social problems, particularly housing.

In 1970 30% of the UK lived in council housing. If that figure was the same now, people in the bottom 3 deciles of the income distribution range would have vastly more disposable income, and local authority finances wouldn't be in a perpetual crisis as the result of having to subsidise low paid people's high housing costs in private rentals.

You neo-liberals caused this crisis. Stop whining about the left.

The Labour have form for crashing the economy without exception, why are you resorting to lying?

Sabire9 · 02/07/2025 11:27

@Soulfulunfurling

"The same could have been said for Labour but they are too badly infected by the far loony left for anyone to get anything done."

'Loony left'?

Put down your copy of the Telegraph mate.

By and large the economy has grown more under Labour over the past 30 years than it has under Conservatives, and public services have functioned better too.

It was Thatcher that sowed the seeds for so many of our current social problems, particularly housing.

In 1970 30% of the UK lived in council housing. If that figure was the same now, people in the bottom 3 deciles of the income distribution range would have vastly more disposable income, and local authority finances wouldn't be in a perpetual crisis as the result of having to subsidise low paid people's high housing costs in private rentals.

You neo-liberals caused this crisis. Stop whining about the left.

TallestSkyscrapers · 02/07/2025 11:27

Jennps · 02/07/2025 10:29

The rot started in 1997 when nu Labour got in. They opened the borders and killed off what was left of industry as well as dumbing down education. Not single decision that stood the test of time.
Start of uncontrolled mass immigration, devaluing degrees and graduate wages forcing everyone into university for pointless degrees, wage suppression through creating a massive welfare handout state by subsidizing low wages with tax credits, selling off the nation’s gold before gold prices sky rocketed, and just to top it off, destabilising the Iraq and Syria and engaging in war crimes.

Then came ‘Call me Dave’, a guy you would lot pay to clean out your shed, let alone run the country. Didn’t make a single good decision to grow the country.

‘Maybot’ took it up a notch by making a hash of Brexit over 3 long years and as if that wasn’t enough, wrote net 0 into legislation without any debate, condemning the country to permanent extortionate energy prices and killing off what left of manufacturing industry including steel.

Johnson was an absolute unmitigated disaster, letting in a million people a year, mostly unskilled migrants who are not even net contributors. Not to mention rampant corruption and stealing taxes to give to his Covid cronies. Two decades of shit leadership had finally taken its toll and.

Truss, the woman who was right about supply side reforms but had no clue how to make it happen. Through her incompetence, she even killed the credibility of the idea even though supply side reforms are exactly what this country needs to growth.

Rishi was frankly pointless. Having borrowed and printed a trillion pounds to pay for Covid corruption, leaving the country with nearly 20% inflation, he decided to bullshit his way through the next 2 years.

And now we have Two Tier. A man, who if x rayed, would turn out to be missing a spine. Who lives by the values of ‘if you don’t like my principles, I have these other ones’. Flanked by an entourage of comedians:

Rachel from accounts, who, when she’s not plagiarizing other people’s work or lying on her cv, is being accused of fiddling expenses at her previous employer and bunking off work. That’s who we have in charge of the nations finances.

Angela ‘I’d rather be scrapping outside the pub’ Rayner showing that no bar is low enough if you want to be in government.

David Lamey whose single brain cell is so lonely, it needs therapy.

Bridget Phillipson, a face that only a mother could employ. That, too, in a charity run by said parent. And this is who is in charge of educating the next generation.

Jonathan Reynolds, another alumni from ‘Rachel from accounts’ school of liars. He lied about having been a lawyer.

Yvette Cooper, like Diane Abbott when she was the shadow Home Secretary, with a minor saving grace that she can put her shoes on the right way around.

Louise ‘phones4me’ Haigh, running transport until someone realized that giving someone like that a portfolio with billions might look bad.

Red Miliband, who is killing off industry and letting every costs run away even more, so that his ‘green’ cronies can cash in.

Lucy ‘oi you’re racist’ Powell. Don’t mention grooming gangs at all in front of our enlightened culture secretary. She will call you a racist. She thinks calling out rape is dog whistle politics.

Lord Hermer, who as, attorney general, makes it his life’s mission to fight for terrorists to make sure that they can never be deported. Loves uncontrolled immigration. And generally doesn’t give two hoots about about anything other than protecting wrong ‘uns.

Basically this cohort of morons has been destroying this country for 27 years. This government, though, gives the term ‘shower of shite’ a whole new meaning.

Edited

what job do you do out of interest?

EasternStandard · 02/07/2025 11:26

SarfLondonLad · 02/07/2025 11:24

Nice try Kemi.

Would you say it’s going well for Starmer?

Viviennemary · 02/07/2025 11:26

PulchritudinousLycanthrope · 02/07/2025 09:29

Are you calling us rabble?

Yes. They are a rabble. Fighting like cats in a sack. Nothing gets done.,

AnAlpacaForChristmasPleaseSanta · 02/07/2025 11:25

Meadowfinch · 02/07/2025 06:50

After his failure yesterday, it is clear he has no support, is just a figurehead, and is completely toothless.

The unions will smell blood, and yes, I think he'll be gone shortly. They'll put someone further left in, with even less grasp of economics and the UK is genuinely stuffed.

I don't think it'll be Raynor because I don't think the unions will, even now, tolerate a woman.

Then Reform will win a landslide in 2029.

What a complete mess !!

This is my thinking too unfortunately.

What a difference a year makes.

Stop the world, I want to get off 😥.

SarfLondonLad · 02/07/2025 11:24

Nice try Kemi.

Vaxtable · 02/07/2025 11:24

Reform won’t win. People are waking up to the fact they are crap with the little they have done since local council elections

EasternStandard · 02/07/2025 11:23

TallestSkyscrapers · 02/07/2025 11:22

I hate it when people talk about bots and shills. It happens on every side. During the vat on school fees discussions, people who disagreed, were accused of being Tory bots. It is all so tiresome.

Ik it’s on every thread, usually from Labour voters.

EasternStandard · 02/07/2025 11:22

Lilactimes · 02/07/2025 11:15

NO - people voted for a more consistent leadership (not an upper class back biting bun fight who consistently took their eye off the ball) AND a value system that was more in keeping with protecting the more vulnerable and not the 1% @Soulfulunfurling

I agree though that a lot of what is going on now is not all down to Tory misrule.
There is of course Brexit and Covid mismanagement, plus post Covid Mismanagement by missing inflationary pressures and no leadership in place to capitalise on post Covid opportunities instead Tory leadership indulged in their own leadership elections throughout 2022
Apart from the above which is Tory mismanagement in the extreme…
There are also additional issues of current global trade difficulties / War in Europe and ME/ Climate change/ AI to navigate.

Not much here on what Labour are getting wrong rn

Why is that?

TallestSkyscrapers · 02/07/2025 11:22

EasternStandard · 02/07/2025 09:31

Cone on you used the bot term. Just learn from it and don’t react to every view that isn’t Labour on a public forum.

I hate it when people talk about bots and shills. It happens on every side. During the vat on school fees discussions, people who disagreed, were accused of being Tory bots. It is all so tiresome.

Soulfulunfurling · 02/07/2025 11:16

The elephant in the room is the malignancy of the far left still very very much present in the party (looking at you Ange) biding their time - then they will sink the whole country in one fail swoop when the timing is right. It’s been in the pipeline with union backing for decades that I know of.

The public will squeal with dismay as they flatten all growth, productivity and ambition. Steam roll over education, aspiration and innovation. We will be no better than communist China in the bad days before they used torture and AI to force the nation into compliance. The levelling up, really means levelling down and our poor children saddled with the dire consequences.

Anyone that can not see this car crash in slow motion is really living in a distorted dystopia of ill founded hope. The shit is going to hit the fan, and it’s coming sooner than you think.

Lilactimes · 02/07/2025 11:15

Soulfulunfurling · 02/07/2025 10:00

You are going to be waiting a very very long time if you think this has anything to do with ‘Tory misrule’

Honestly I question the IQ levels of this country. Such a lazy grasp of the fundamental basics of an our country’s economics is why we are here today. People thought they were voting for change, even at the time it was wishful thinking at best.

NO - people voted for a more consistent leadership (not an upper class back biting bun fight who consistently took their eye off the ball) AND a value system that was more in keeping with protecting the more vulnerable and not the 1% @Soulfulunfurling

I agree though that a lot of what is going on now is not all down to Tory misrule.
There is of course Brexit and Covid mismanagement, plus post Covid Mismanagement by missing inflationary pressures and no leadership in place to capitalise on post Covid opportunities instead Tory leadership indulged in their own leadership elections throughout 2022
Apart from the above which is Tory mismanagement in the extreme…
There are also additional issues of current global trade difficulties / War in Europe and ME/ Climate change/ AI to navigate.

TallestSkyscrapers · 02/07/2025 11:13

As a Labour supporter, I have been disappointed by Starmer. A stronger leader could have made such a difference.

OP, your post is so full of cliches: Red Ed, Two Tier, Rachel from accounts etc, that I can’t take it seriously.

TallestSkyscrapers · 02/07/2025 11:11

Quirkswork · 02/07/2025 08:10

You love him too?

You are embarrassing yourself now. I have known about this phrase for decades. Didn’t know DC used it.

Mumble12 · 02/07/2025 11:10

Quirkswork · 02/07/2025 11:00

Oh was that to me?

One example of two tier Keir would be the policing of Southport riots and the speed at which the courts cranked into gear to jail the white protesters but not so fast with for example those violent thugs at Manchester Aiport that broke the policewoman nose. We have a tweeter in prison for 31 months but violent prisoners freed. It will be interesting to see what happens re the Glastonbury anti semites as I suspect quite a few people would have been offended (which is of course the basis that you can get jailed these days.)

His approach to white working class victims of the rape gangs when running the DPP.

Come on...get your head out of the sand and read the news sometime.

Ah OK well if those are your opinions, there's no point continuing the conversation because it will go round and round while you insist Lucy Connolly was a victim of unfair treatment (depsite pleading guilty and being sentenced well within guidelines).

It is important to remember that the ongoing and very current Southport riots, rightly needed swift action to stop them. At the time of the Southport riots, the people involved in the Manchester airport incident hadn't been charged with anything - courts can't act until police bring charges. None of the police were charged despite using excessive force. Interestingly no one sees that as two tiers of justice.

EasternStandard · 02/07/2025 11:09

GasPanic · 02/07/2025 10:59

Wasn't that what Labour were promising before the election ?

No tax rises and wonderful improvements.

And now they are screwed. Because improvements don't come without spending money and they cannot borrow any because the markets won't let them.

They’ll struggle with this for the next few years then GE. Although the same back benchers could try to force more spending and see things crash earlier.

BIossomtoes · 02/07/2025 11:07

EasternStandard · 02/07/2025 11:02

Starmer and Labour have plenty of supporters on mn, you are one of them.

It has more than other sites do and is at odds with polling.

Edited

What other sites? As far as I can see at the moment the predominant MN view is the same as multi millionaire Rod Stewart’s.

GasPanic · 02/07/2025 11:06

AnonymousBleep · 02/07/2025 11:01

No, Reform are actively promising tax CUTs, which is not the same as saying no tax rises. Those cuts are unfunded - the money would have to come from public services. The end result would be the richer getting richer at the expense of the poor.

To me it's exactly the same thing. Promising something you can't deliver on in order to get elected.

Jennps · 02/07/2025 11:05

MoominUnderWater · 02/07/2025 10:54

I think I probably agree with 95% of this.

The question is what now? You said are the economically illiterate ready for Reform? I'm assuming you don't think they'll be any better from an economy pov? I reckon most of their "candidates" couldn't run a piss up in a brewery/haven't had any experience of high level, decent jobs in the real world.

So what do we do? How do we as a country get out this mess?

Or are we fucked.

I read in a few years time that house ownership and even buying a car will be out of reach of most middle class people. Is that what we want for our kids? That a teacher/nurse/etc can't afford to buy a car never mind a house??????

Reform getting in will be a reaction to 28 years of disastrous government (32 years by next GE if Labour last that long).

By shape shifting on two child benefit cap, Reform have just shown themselves up to be what we all knew - opportunists. They are right about uncontrolled migration, government spending, the need to cut taxes, but none of that are novel ideas owned by reform. Most sane people know that this needs to happen. Supported by massive supply side reforms, building roads and airports and runways, oil and nuclear energy, attracting foreign investment to do the very things nimbys hate.

The country, sadly, will get a bigger shock. Reform getting in, failing to do anything because they are just a protest party.

In that time, we can only hope that Tories will have been purged, like totally cleansed of the rotting flesh that is the current parliamentary party. No one who has been a Tory in the last 25 years, should be allowed to remain if expect any semblance of a sane ruling party. The same could have been said for Labour but they are too badly infected by the far loony left for anyone to get anything done.

OP posts:
GasPanic · 02/07/2025 11:05

MoominUnderWater · 02/07/2025 10:54

I think I probably agree with 95% of this.

The question is what now? You said are the economically illiterate ready for Reform? I'm assuming you don't think they'll be any better from an economy pov? I reckon most of their "candidates" couldn't run a piss up in a brewery/haven't had any experience of high level, decent jobs in the real world.

So what do we do? How do we as a country get out this mess?

Or are we fucked.

I read in a few years time that house ownership and even buying a car will be out of reach of most middle class people. Is that what we want for our kids? That a teacher/nurse/etc can't afford to buy a car never mind a house??????

I think if you are middle class/working then you are now screwed. The country now really has to go through the process of hitting rock bottom before things can get better.

Especially if Labour try to gerrymander the next election by giving 16 year olds and EU citizens the vote. This will end the ability of middle England to influence the election outcome.

mutinyonthetwix · 02/07/2025 11:04

AnonymousBleep · 02/07/2025 10:53

But why would you do that? Reform are promising everything because none of their promises are funded. You can't offer tax cuts AND better public services, as they're confidently promising. They won't stop the boats. And Nigel Farage is a lone wolf who falls out with everyone he works with - and a lazy arse when it comes to the daily grind - and would be a disaster in government. Why, honestly, does that look like a good option? It would be Liz Truss all over again, but much worse.

I don't think any party ever has actually costed or funded a manifesto or programme for government no matter how much they claim to have done so.

Fact is we have three options. Options A and B are proven to just make things worse. Option C will probably make things worse too but we haven't really tried it. As I say I am getting to the point of "might as well give it a whirl".

Of course Labour has another four years to turn things round and win me back but if the past year is anything to go by that seems improbable.

And re - small boats I honestly don't care. I doubt it's even close to the top 20 things that need fixing right now and nobody else is going to fix it either.

EasternStandard · 02/07/2025 11:02

GoodbyeRosie · 02/07/2025 10:58

I know right? they were so well looked after under 14 years of Tory Government.

There is nothing, absolutely nothing, that Sir Keir Starmer could do that would please Mumsnets dominant demographic.

Well resign, that would please them but they would collapse in a dead faint if Angela Raynor ( that voice! so provincial!) took over the leadership.

But Nigel, eh?, he'd sort all this out. Man of the people.

Starmer and Labour have plenty of supporters on mn, you are one of them.

It has more than other sites do and is at odds with polling.

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