Child left in car in 35 degree heat

Look at quite history - link at bottom - show quote histroy.

You've quoted me but seem to think you quoted the person I quoted replied to.

I haven't name changed at all on this thread - and wouldn't do so as that's sock - puppeting and against talk guidlines and I think it's rude to even imply I've done that.

You posts make no sense beacuse when you quote me you seem to think you are replying to person I was replying to - which makes no sense because you then quoted from my post but seem to think you are replying to person I was quoting and replying to counter. That why it makes no sense to you and probably no-one else.

I made a point about our brains not always letting us know what our eyes have take in.

Peripheral vision or actual visison the brain can and does discount things - like man in a gorilla being on court because our focus in on counting points. So glancing back isn't a guarantee of "seeing a baby" there - that was my point.

I think you meant to reply to IHaveAlwaysLivedintheCastle at Today 12:41 - who seems to think peripheral vision is enough not me - which was not me and I was countering this.

People will always say "this would never happen to me" but as PPs have said, it's usually a change of routine and you go on autopilot and before you know it you're at work and your mind doesn't click that you've forgotten to take the kid to nursery or whatever.

I was once driving to the next town with my toddler in the car, my mind started wandering and I only remembered my toddler was with me when she made a noise in the back, I had genuinely forgotten. Terrified the life out of me and it was years ago, I never would have thought it could happen to me until it did, thankfully it didn't get to the point where she was in danger but I can easily see how it happens.

From the WaPo article - Hickling is a psychologist.

Humans, Hickling said, have a fundamental need to create and maintain a narrative for their lives in which the universe is not implacable and heartless, that terrible things do not happen at random, and that catastrophe can be avoided if you are vigilant and responsible.
In hyperthermia cases, he believes, the parents are demonized for much the same reasons. “We are vulnerable, but we don’t want to be reminded of that. We want to believe that the world is understandable and controllable and unthreatening, that if we follow the rules, we’ll be okay. So, when this kind of thing happens to other people, we need to put them in a different category from us. We don’t want to resemble them, and the fact that we might is too terrifying to deal with. So, they have to be monsters.”

AKA the Just World Hypothesis

we are seeing some stunning examples of it from the wilfully ignorant in this thread.

And so they should. How anyone can think leaving a baby in a hot car for any length of time is an okay thing to do deserves as harsh a punishment as possible

These are the ones where the parents get charged with culpable homicide and neglect - when there's an active decision to leave the child in the vehicle rather than it being a tragic oversight.

Anyone still arguing either that this couldn’t possibly happen to them or that these parents are covering something up should just go and read that WP article.

Experts - people who have actually studied and researched these matters, not just someone who ‘reckons’ this or that - explain clearly precisely how and why this happens. And the phenomenon of why some are so desperate to insist it would never happen to them.

These poor parents have suffered terribly. Let’s at least not impose ignorant judgment on them too.

I am not familiar with the Spanish story (I can’t bear to read it tbh) but I have previously read that American article and completely understand the dangers of going onto autopilot.

Anyone who thinks it could never happen to them is deluded. I feel incredibly sorry for those parents.

I read of one recently In Florida where the dad left his 10 month old I think it was in the back seat whilst he went and got a haircut and had a beer in a bar😡 it isn't always a tragic accident. Some people are disgusting

Trying to take the emotion out of the discussion about how our minds work.

There are two ‘modes’ - system 1 and system 2. 1 is autopilot. How you drive home when you aren’t thinking about it. 2 is really thinking. We spend a lot of our time in 1, because it’s easy and our brains are saving energy. Our brains flip into 1 automatically if we are doing something routine. If I drop DD to school, then go to work, I can do the whole thing as 1. Because it’s routine. If DH did, he can’t be cause it’s not his routine.

Your brain does this. It’s why we drive home when we wanted to go to Tescos. Why we forget things that are out of the ordinary. And it’s automatic. Which is why you can do things like write on your hand, put your bag in the back seat, stick a post-it on the window, whatever. But DON’T rely on your brain being magically different to everyone else’s brain.

Oh have you changed your name? Or am I getting confused!? Sorry if latter!

Anyway I still don't get your point - when I lock my car a baby in a car seat is not in my peripheral vision at all, regardless of how good or bad that might be. I could even have my back to the whole car.

You quoted me - and quote what I wrote in your post questioning - peripheral vison being irrelevant - hence me replying to your post.

As your reply to me made no sense hence me feeling need explain what peripheral vision because what you wrote made it sound like you absolutly didn't know that.

I know what peripheral vision is - I don't understand what the poster I was replying to meant. She said that if you don't see a baby in the back seat while locking a car your peripheral vision is defective.

I can't tell if you are wilfully ignoring the articles and every comment others have posted or if you are incapable of applying any nuance.

You are not a better parent than everyone commenting here. Everyone on here agrees that deliberately leaving a dog or child in a car is wrong, neglectful and if harm was caused they should be prosecuted. There is no doubt that it is inexcusable.

Posters are not talking about that situation. They are talking about being on autopilot which we have all, even you, experienced in some way at some point. In these tragic cases autopilot sadly happened when parents had their babies in the car.

I have experienced this myself with an older child. Normally walked DS to school, then came home and drove to the gym. On this occasion I was driving him to school and then to the gym.

Got in the car with DS and halfway to the gym, DS piped up in the back 'Mummy where are we going.' I had completely forgotten he was there and to drive him to school because I was in my gym gear and I always drive straight to the gym in that scenario.

DS was 5 and able to speak up. Had he been a baby or toddler who was asleep, the outcome could have been very different, as when I got to the gym I would, like always, have grabbed my water bottle and towel from the passenger seat and rushed in without paying any attention to the back seat of the car. Because why would I?

Peripheral vision is the corner of the eye stuff not looking directly at something and if the brain can miss things directly in front of it quick glances give it less chance - though movement would be picked up for survval reasons.

And as I explained it's becuase we don't see everything - even when we are looking directly at something. The brain selects what we see - not the eyes -so you can look and not "see". It's the brain filtering out noise - it's imperfect system.

Obviusly directly looking back to to lock or pick up bag - will obviously help see - but that's more than a side glance - a side glance even less chance for the brain to register a child is in the back espailly if they are quiet and still.

Yes exactly. Thinking the parents involved are monsters or neglectful and it would never happen to a normal person is a very complacent take. Much more useful to think that its a terrifying possibility and put some thought into how to make sure it never happens to you.

Likewise. I can also lock and unlock it using my phone. Which I can also use to pay for things, so don't always have a bag with me to carry a purse or other items. I could very easily get out of the driver's seat and walk away without a backward glance at the tinted rear windows.

It is the very people who think it could never happen to them who are most vulnerable to it happening. The naïve belief in their own invincibility is astounding.

I totally agree it is absolutely the most horrific thing I have ever read in my life and it will never ever leave me.

Thinking it can't happen to you, you'd never forget your child etc, is exactly how this kind of thing happens. You get lulled into a false sense of security and don't think to take precautions. Tbh I could never understand how it happens until I read that Nosleep story 'Autopilot'.

Absolutely terrible. Poor baby

See I think this - we should help parents develop habits or have systems in place so this can't happen as easily or is elimated entirely.

How is peripheral vision relevent? I don't even have to look in the direction of my car to lock it. In fact I don't have to do anything at all it just locks when the fob is a certain distance away.

I saw a tip on FB the other day to take off one shoe and chuck it on the back seat.

There that famous experiment where people are asked to watch some aspect of a basketball game - and focus on that and the brain misses a gorilla being on court.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Invisible_Gorilla
People who are focused on one thing can easily overlook something else - so focues on getting parked and getting to work on time - and brain discounts anything else.

So talk of peripheral vision is uterley irrelevant - brain often cherry picks from what our eyes take in - unless you somehow have a brain different to all the ones so far studied.

No. We should all think “there but for the grace of god go I” and then think about things that we can do to prevent it happening to us.

Things like having a habit of putting your bag in the backseat are really good. And talking to our nurseries / schools to see if they will contact us if the kids don’t turn up.

One thing I do if there is something that is out of routine that I must remember is create what I call “What The Fuck!” moments. Ie do something so that when I later see it then I will think “What the Fuck!” which will remind my poor, tired, routine driven brain that something is going on here that I need to think about. So an obvious example is if I was taking a child to nursery when I didn’t usually then rather than just putting my bag on the backseat I would tip the bag upside down so that all my stuff is now spread over the backseat and I have to scrabble around trying to find my contact lens container which has now flown off somewhere unknown. All the while thinking “What The Fuck!” And then remember I need to drop the baby at nursery.

Scrimping on childcare? So decides to pay 10k for a funeral instead of 150 bucks for a day of childcare? Is maths not your strong point?
Or logic, or empathy, or understanding...

Lots of cars have tinted back windows, I’ve been looking at lots of used ones recently and you have to cover you eyes and press against the window to have a good look in the back, that combined with new style locks of just walking away.