To think that proposing to a man kills attraction, even in “modern” couples?

I mean, he wasn’t but I wasn’t arsed about it at all. So I was happy to let him have his “moment” if it meant more to him than it did to me. Nothing wrong with that.

I’ve recently read a novel set decades ago, probably early post WW2, where it suddenly dawns on a woman who’s been in love with a (married) man for over 20 years, that his wife (a much more assertive type) almost certainly proposed to him. That same wife later more or less says outright that her own niece has proposed to her fiancé, since he’d probably never have the nerve to ask her. He’s a curate, she’s a ‘female don’ and he’s already said ‘she’s far too clever to look at anyone like me’.

(Some Tame Gazelle, by Barbara Pym, a lovely read, but almost as much a period piece now as Jane Austen)
The opening sentence is a comedy classic!

Well, you're not wrong because it's clear from the thread that old fashioned misogyny is still alive and kicking. And yes, we should be honest about this.

But no decent man would have a problem with being proposed to by a woman. The problem is that there are still lots of shitty men out there, and lots of women who are prepared to put up with them.

Each to their own, I suppose.

Why would it be ‘code’ for anything?

Some cases where the woman proposes will be those where the man was dragging his feet. Didn't want to get married or at very least didn't care. I'm not sure how far it's possible for such men to separate feelings about the woman proposing from their disinclination to get married in the first place. but you'd have to control for that.

A proposal seems oddly old fashioned these days. Just discuss the idea of marriage then do it surely.

My parents have been married 51 years. There was no proposal as such but it was my mum who suggested they got married. No signs that is emasculated my rugby and cricket playing policeman dad.

I don't think it's that. There's a difference between internalised misogyny and recognising a genuine pattern of behaviour that appears to be biologically encoded in most men. How we deal with it may show internalised misogyny but knowing it exists doesn't.

This is 2025?

Sigh .....

It is bizarre. How there is so much inequality in relationships.

In the work kitchen yesterday, a colleague was talking about her.Wedding dress fitting. Another colleague didn't know she was getting married. He is male and said to her good, that your partner is going to make an honest woman of you.

So she's a dishonest woman and doing something immoral, until her male partner decides to marry her.

Christ alive.

This was in a professional job with highly educated individuals.Supposedly.

We all talk about equality in relationships but

There is no but.

So if a woman says she wants to spend the rest of her life with him, he feels LIKE HIS BALLS HAVE FALLEN OFF?

Jeez, she needs to find a man with more securely attached gonads!

Why was he the only one that was allowed a moment? What if you'd wanted to have a moment?

I don’t want a husband whose male fragility I need to panda to. I proposed to DH. He said yes. Been married almost 4 years. I earn more than him and he does the majority of domestic organising and admin because he’s much better at it than me. He is secure in the way he contributes to our family and ultimately we are team Basil and Tom, it doesn’t matter if we’re fulfilling gendered roles or not.

Same and just had our 40th wedding anniversary!

Exactly. "Neither of us proposed, we had a conversation and it was a mutual agreement" is usually code for "she asked him".

Interesting. I like the idea of mothers, grandmothers and other close but wiser female relations having a guiding hand in decisions about who to marry and when.

Yes, a lot of tossers in this world.

Nevermind unmarried mothers...I married 30 years ago ...kept my name and gave dc mine.

I know mums who have walked their dc down the aisle, stay at home dads and shock horror same sex marriages.

My fomer sister in law proposed to my brother over 25 years ago.

I honestly don't know anyone who would bat an eyelid at a woman proposing. It's bizarre to me that anyone would see it as an issue.

So the unmarried mothers around you have given their children their last name, even though they live with the father? No-one in your circle got walked down the isle by their Dad? Post birth leave is completely shared? The men are going part time to accommodate babies/toddlers?

It sort of was before people got disposable income and the wedding industry kicked off. It was the grandmothers and women who played matchmaker. Outside of extreme wealth/title, women had a say. Then, very cleverly was it put to the men. The asking the Dad and the proposal was perfunctory. We seem to look back at post war 'traditions' without realising that they were manufactured by retailers/advertising. All this 'romance' (including that of being a wife and mother) was to mask women being chucked out of jobs for the returning men.

Can't say I've noticed many 1950s virgin types tbh or anyone pretending about it.

Honestly feel it's your mindset OP

This.

You need to work on that OP.

Yeah, and neither was women voting?