To be done with Labour - no money will be saved

I’m not sure if any will go. They might prop each other up until the GE. Starmer is too tied in and accountable for anything Reeves puts in action. I guess we’ll see, maybe someone will be out.

Not sure it will help Labour though.

To have four with that diagnosis in one family should also prompt some sort of intervention. There must be a reason why this is affecting your family in such numbers. When this happens, is there any investigations by medical professionals as to possible reasons behind it?

Yep 4 in my house have autism and adhd ( nhs diagnosis) 3 have other comorbities including severe depression, EDs and CPTSD. ND people are often more at risk of abuse and trauma all of which are harder to treat. Only one has PIP Im hoping all will end up working, 2 already are. Said PIP form was massive, 14 pages long and we had to send masses of professional related evidence. I ended up having help with it by the NHs professionals who urged us to apply. I have a degree and and found it hard and gruelling to complete.

Quite so, TN.

I am not confident that Reeves will still be at her post to deliver the October budget. Someone will need to be sacrificed for yesterday’s shambles, and if the media is to be believed, Rayner is on manoeuvres….

The fact that you believe anyone gets PIP for "obesity" negates any point you feel you have successfully made.

Surely I can see that a policy that would cost an awful lot more than it would save was about saving money because the Chancellor needed to show she could balance the books?

Clear as mud, and again we're back to the national economy as a household budget where the government runs a bit short and has to check down the back of the sofa for loose change.

@ForWittyTealOP 's point was that an assertion about benefit fraud was made without any evidence.

What's really barmy is you having claiming a peek into her "mindset" when she'd just like some clarification.

Quite so, TN.

I am not confident that Reeves will still be at her post to deliver the October budget. Someone will need to be sacrificed for yesterday’s shambles, and if the media is to be believed, Rayner is on manoeuvres….

No, it wasn't about appearing to save money either. It was about saving money. That was obvious in the way it was done. Surely you can see that? The chancellor has lost her headroom. It was rushed without the necessary prep a week before the spring statement. The Chancellor then had to go back for a bit more a few days later when the OBR pointed out that she was still short.

No, it wasn't about appearing to save money either. It was about saving money. That was obvious in the way it was done. Surely you can see that? The chancellor has lost her headroom. It was rushed without the necessary prep a week before the spring statement. The Chancellor then had to go back for a bit more a few days later when the OBR pointed out that she was still short.

So it was about appearing to save money. Given that the knock-on costs of causing hundreds of thousands to fall into poverty, risking employed PIP claimants being unable to afford to work and making it financially impossible for thousands of unpaid carers to continue in their role would vastly outweigh any "savings" made, it's not hard to see that someone was attempting to pull the wool over our eyes.

To save money, you first need to invest. Inequality caused by poverty, as I have previously said, costs the NHS 50 bn a year. And that is just one sector. How can you save money on disability benefits while people still wait months or years to be seen by medical specialists and have no option but to sit and watch their conditions worsen?

No, it was a huge waste of time. It’s now higher taxes - no other way. 🙄

They really are bloody hopeless. 🤬

Of course this bill was about saving money. It was conceived in a hurry to balance the books before the spring statement.

If you want to debate with me you're going to have to do so courteously. It would also help if you could consider points of view other than your own rather than assuming nobody but you knows what they're talking about and dismissing them out of hand.

If you can't do that, please don't bother.

What utter bullshit, honestly.

Of course it was about finances - please, be serious.

Tax rises are inevitable according to many economists. Analysts at Capital Economics estimate that the chancellor faces a £13bn-23bn fiscal hole in the Autumn because of the benefit and welfare U-turns and the prospect of OBR forecast downgrades.

Reeves’ problem is that Labour’s manifesto ruled out rises in the three big revenue-raisers: income tax, VAT and employee National Insurance contributions. “We stand by that commitment,” Reeves told MPs on Tuesday.

The Treasury has discussed in the past — but so far not implemented — an extension beyond 2028 of the freeze in income tax allowances and thresholds, which could generate about £8bn a year.

Very bad strategy as they’re now playing with big untested tax changes - income tax rises otoh are fairly well modelled….

Why? Reeves' self-imposed financial rules were never set in stone 0and plenty thought it was foolish of her to tie her own hands like she did.

The bill was never going to save money, it wasn't about saving money. It was a warning shot to disabled people that state support cannot be relied upon. A further attempt to dismantle what's left of the welfare state. Now the government can use the supposed loss of savings to justify other policies such as keeping the two child benefit cap and freezing LHA. See also the decision to continue paying WFA which the government will also cite as a reason why poverty and inequality is inevitable. It's exactly what you'd expect from right wing government which is what we still have.

Why? Reeves' self-imposed financial rules were never set in stone 0and plenty thought it was foolish of her to tie her own hands like she did.

The bill was never going to save money, it wasn't about saving money. It was a warning shot to disabled people that state support cannot be relied upon. A further attempt to dismantle what's left of the welfare state. Now the government can use the supposed loss of savings to justify other policies such as keeping the two child benefit cap and freezing LHA. See also the decision to continue paying WFA which the government will also cite as a reason why poverty and inequality is inevitable. It's exactly what you'd expect from right wing government which is what we still have.

Pat McFadden said watering down the Government’s flagship welfare Bill will have “financial consequences” in an apparent hint at future tax rises.

The Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster indicated that the fiscal fallout resulting from Sir Keir Starmer’s concessions to Labour rebels will be set out at the Budget later this year.

The Prime Minister dropped a planned crackdown on the personal independence payment (Pip) just 90 minutes before MPs were due to vote on the legislation last night.

The U-turn means that almost all of the £4.6 billion of annual savings the Bill was meant to deliver have been lost, blowing a significant hole in the Government’s spending plans.

The Government will have to choose between more borrowing, cuts elsewhere or tax increases to fill the gap.

This is going to get nasty.

Following your logic.

14 years of Tory ‘mismanagement’ - I paraphrase you.

Versus 12 months of an utter Labour abomination - feel free to list their ‘successes’ since entering power.

Labour are simply not fit to govern.