HR rejected grievance I made against Colleague

I did understand the innuendo, but only after I'd sat here and scratched my head for a minute. It could be perfectly innocent, and coming from any number of my own colleagues, that's the assumption I'd have made. But as op knows this colleague well, my assumption is that this is the kind of thing he's 'known' for. I've known a few of these over the years, who will make something mucky and inappropriate out of seemingly innocent things. Some are so good at it double meanings that it's never obvious to 'outsiders' why someone (usually a woman) felt uncomfortable about it. It can be very subtle, so HR departments struggle unless it's a pattern of reported behaviour.

First, unless I missed something, the OP didn’t give any indication that he delivered the remark in a suggestive manner.

Second, as should be clear from this thread, most people wouldn’t recognise this as sexual innuendo in the first place!

So it is all about being offended by a highly subjective interpretation of words that a clear majority wouldn’t interpret as innuendo. By your own admission, almost anything could be turned into innuendo if you really wanted to, meaning that no one is safe to say anything in your world, as:

1. Almost anything said could be interpreted as innuendo.

2)If it’s perceived as innuendo it must be recognised as such, and the perpetrator hung out to dry.

The shame here is that some women take the rights that have been hard won, and distort and stretch them too far, undermining those rights in the process.

Who is denying that OP was offended by it? She obviously was, but her being offended by it does not make it sexual harassment. Sexual harassment isn’t only about words, no, but an allegation needs to be evidenced in order to be proven, and neither OP nor her colleagues that would have been spoken to during the course of the investigation provided that evidence.

I’m not denying that pumped can be used as a euphemism for fucked either. What I’m saying is that it isn’t at all clear that he was using it as one here when he could very believably have merely been using common vernacular to literally describe what OP was doing.

Well said.

And to a PP pump and dump has always meant expressing breast milk to me.

So, it just goes to show how ambiguous some expressions are.

What I mean is don’t be setting up innuendo watch WhatsApp groups to record. 😄 you’ll need to be more circumspect in your gathering of info

No, I don't get your point. I haven't said anything to you that constitutes a sexual innuendo, nor have I delivered it to you in a leering way that makes it obvious it's intended to be sexual innuendo. The OP isn't 'choosing' to be offended by some innocuous comment. Any sexual harrassment in the workplace is obviously unacceptable. It's disappointing how many posters - on MN of all places - are choosing to believe the office sleaze over the OP.

Agreeing with previous posters… you were getting your lips pumped, it’s entirely factual what he said

As a single comment it wasn’t gonna go anywhere. It’s grey enough to dismiss as a misunderstanding. However he knows now “you can’t say anything” or some other statement he’ll tell himself. If you’d written down and dated more comments you might have had some mileage especially when they’d asked other staff if they found he regularly made sexual innuendos. Make sure you guys write them down individually and ie
i.e don’t make it look like a bullying witch hunt) if you want to take it further in future.

No one has said they don’t believe the OP wasn’t offended by it. Of course she was, otherwise she wouldn’t have raised a grievance.

I happen to be VERY offended by the fact you’ve hurt my feelings by not validating the opinions I’ve expressed on this thread… I’ve said I’m offended, and that should be enough! Or are you going to refuse to believe me and are calling me a liar? If we were in a work setting, I’d absolutely raise a grievance against you, and I’d expect HR to believe that you have genuinely upset me and uphold my grievance for your show of disdain and disrespect for my opinions, and reprimand you accordingly.

Obviously what I wrote above is nonsense, but hopefully it made my point. Being offended isn’t grounds in itself to raise a grievance as it’s so damn subjective!

Yes they do. There's been loads of examples given in the thread, including the use of the phrase on the BBC.

Oh, I don't think so. I think the complaint was fair enough given her perception of what he meant, especially if she mentioned the previous remark to another colleague, which was inarguably offensive. Nothing for the OP to feel bad about at all.

99% of the time when people use the word “pumping”, they’re not referring to sex.

And 99%+ of the time when people use the word “lips”, they’re not referring to vaginal lips.

Also, “pumping lips” in a sexual context makes as much sense as saying I’m going to pump up the valve of my bike tyre.

OP, I’m sorry, but you really picked the wrong hill to die on by trying to bring a grievance for this.

Sexual harrassment isn't just about words. It was clear to the OP that he was making an inappropriate sexual comment. It's in the tone and delivery. You can turn virtually anything into a sexual innuendo if you're that sort of person! And 'pumped' very much is a euphemism for 'fucked.'

I don't know why we can't just believe the OP when she says she was offended by it. It's a shame HR didn't take it seeriously. Most of us don't want the random office twat making leering innuendos about us. It sounds like her office has one of those unpleasant 'banter' cultures where 'banter' treads a very fine line with 'harrassment' and you have to be able to 'take a joke' to work there (if you're a woman).

”Pumping” in a sexual context tends to refer to sexual intercourse, so yes, the clear implication was that the surgeon was a man.

It’s not about what she or anyone else professes to ‘know’, it’s about what can be proven. Yes, it can be meant and perceived as innuendo, but it’s also a very common description of lip augmentation that someone could quite innocently use when answering a question about what they or someone else is doing or has done (as is the case here). As a standalone comment it is not enough to constitute sexual harassment.

I’ve had lip filler and used ‘getting my lips pumped’ to describe it, as have other women I know. Hell, my aesthetician has even used it to me. It isn’t only, or even commonly, used within a sexual context.

Not at all. I wouldn't associate pumped with sex at all.

In terms of judging lip filler and suggestions 'she deserved it" .... Never.

I do have an opinion on lip fillers...it's sad that women can't accept their appearance and alter what is normal plus many lip fillers look awful. That's an opinion ...I'd never feel she deserved any insults however.

I doubt it is a positive step for the OP. She has just made herself look rather ridiculous.

You do realise that's the same argument as 'women who wear short skirts are asking for it'?

It's clear that the actual crime here for a lot of MNers is the lip filler.

That's just whatabouttery. There's no suggestion this is the case. Why wouldn't we just take the OP at her word - she says the guy's got form as a sleaze and why would we not believe her?

BTW I am ND and, strangely, have never been accused of making inappropriate comments in the workplace.

That is incorrect. If OP found the remark to her colleague offensive, she could have complained about it herself.

many people do say pumped for Botox - it usually implies a certain distaste for the whole thing

what I find off is that the whole idea of lip fillers is to make you look more sexy - the full lips are strongly associated with sex in I think every culture

you are adjusting your body to appear more sexy including in the workplace but object to sone words ?

Anonymousbleep - Are accommodations to ND employees also woke?

Playing devils advocate, say this was your ND young adult male child (who had form for speaking before thinking, stating factual statements because they are true) who said this in the workplace (and had previously told HR that he had challenges but wanted to keep that private to himself) and he been disciplined /lost his job on the basis of upholding this grievance, would you think that was ok?

Who would be ‘woke’ in this instance?

He’s a sleaze. He makes sleazy comments and thinks he’s hilarious. Ugh. People just don’t say ‘she’s getting her lips pumped’. They say she’s getting lip filler/she’s getting her lips done’ and he should have kept his mouth shut anyway as nobody was asking him. I believe you OP.

Yes it’s disappointing that there appears to be more judgment and pearl clutching directed towards the OP for daring to have lip enhancements, than at the sleazy arsehole who is almost certainly belittling her with innuendo.

I think most people on here know, really, what he was implying by what he said. They just think that because she gets lip filler, she deserved it. Also, all these threads about HR issues are always attacked by what I can only assume are small business owners without an HR department who clearly think HR is 'woke'.