HR rejected grievance I made against Colleague

If this man has form of making inappropriate comments, then it is possible this comment was made in the way the OP interpreted it. No one here knows, because we weren't there.

Still, raising a formal complaint with HR is, in my opinion, a massively disproportioned reaction which will bring OP nothing good. A man making a dirty comment does not warrant a complaint being upheld.

The OP could have looked directly at the man and said something like: "Dave, this is not the first time I hear you making these kind of unwanted, unpleasant comments to other women. I want you to know I know what you're doing, I don't like it and next time it happens I will bring this up with HR".

This way the OP would have isolated the behaviour, expressed that it is not aceptable to her and that she does not want it repeated in her presence. Then, if similar comments happen in the future, she would have a leg to stand on regarding a complaint.

As the situation developed, in my opinion she has made a mountain out of a molehill, placed herself as "the problem maker" and suffered massive distress and personal anguish over a minor rude comment.

I am going to guess the OP is a Gen Z, because this situation has happened in similar ways with Gen Zers in my place of work who seem unable to tolerate the tiniest perceived criticism, rudeness or negative feedback and want the person to be basically dragged through the mud, or taken to the employment tribunal because they happened to roll their eyes at them once and triggered their mental health issues.

Part of being an adult, or "adulting", as this generation likes to call it, is choosing how much you are going to let a small encounter/event affect your and others' lives. A person being rude to you once is not harassment. A person making an uncomfortable comment once is not sexual abuse. A person rolling their eyes at you once is not bullying. It's a one-off event, an uncomfortable social interaction between 2 adults. It can be dealt with effectively by yourself without requiring the whole company getting involved.

If and when it becomes a pattern that shows you (or a colleague) are indeed been targeted and it is persistent, specific to the person and malicious, THEN it is definitely a case of raising a complaint.

The massive issue OP has turned this non-event into is, honestly, ridiculous.

Honestly, I wouldnt have got that as inuendo.

Not even OP has suggested that this man was "desperate to reply" and it is really a stretch to read into this the innuendo that you assume. For this to work, the use of "lips" to mean the vagina would have to be common, which it just isn't. If someone wants to refer to the vagina, that is the word they use, not "lips". On the other hand, people regularly use the word "lips" in normal conversation without people nudging each other and the speaker needing to clarify that they meant lips on the mouth - e.g watch my lips, my lips are sealed, my lips are narrow so I need lipstick, lip reading, etc etc.

I don't honestly think HR had much choice around this. As for what you do next, that decision has to be up to you. If you stay where you are, by all means be prepared to challenge this man to his face when his conduct merits it, but be careful not to jump to conclusions.

I can tell that your life and worldview has been affected by smoking crack, otherwise you wouldn't write such crazy stuff on the Internet.

You’re a troublemaker op

But just because you didn’t understand the innuendo doesn’t mean it wasn’t there. I don’t get why people aren’t comprehending that

Because it would have to be generally comprehended and this is not. It’s just like if I had some weird porn fetish involving cupboards and china teaware and then accusing someone if they ever said anything like ‘have you put the china in the cupboard’. Obviously HR would just be stumped (and think me barmy), and the OPs example is really no different.

Agree with you 100%. I think we have a problem with people sexualising every single thing and it's getting tiresome.

He did not mean it that way at all and I can tell that your life and worldview has been affected by porn culture even if you do not partake in it yourself. Otherwise, you wouldn't have gutter thinking.

and he said ‘she’s getting her lips pumped’

How is this sexual innuendo? I don’t get it so no wonder HR didn’t either.

I think you are probably doing it wrong

I immediately understood what he meant

Something you hear quite often in relation to evidence being given/collected is a phrase along the lines of "You cannot tell me what (person) thought/meant".

You simply do not have that ability. You are referring to your own conclusion/interpretation of information. There may be all manner of context/additional information that leads you to draw your conclusion. However you cannot claim to understand what someone other than yourself thought or meant for the purpose of evidence.

Here you have zero context/information. Based on your own prejudices, experiences etc, you have assumed what he meant. You might be right or you might not; the point is you cannot claim to understand what another person meant by language that is clearly - based on the responses here alone - open to interpretation.

This. It’s was 100% a play on words ffs.

wake-up mumsnet.

Why did he involve himself in the conversation at all? He was trying to neg/ be “funny”.

OMG.

The most obvious answer is usually the correct answer. If you have to skittle round it, you're bullshitting on their behalf.

I would be horrified yes. Not offended no. Just take those conversations about things irrelevant to work, out of it. As for the comments. No, I couldn't care less. People need to learn that they are responsible for their reactions because you cannot control others' behaviours. Falling apart over this comment is ridiculous to me but so is chatting about lip filler at work. But there you have it.

My goodness, those pearls are being clutched tonight. Are you also swooning and having to fan yourself after learning that men can be vulgar. Have a sip of your sherry and calm down as you are trying to paint me as some kind of deviant 😂

To address your points:

My age isn't relevant

I do not watch porn

I do not sexualise everything but I have a good idea when someone is and will pull them up on it

My life is filled with beauty and wonder

He did mean it in that way

I hope that's to your satisfaction and you'll sleep well tonight knowing I'm not going to hell...

Getting lip filler is as problematic as the comment he made. Pick a hill that is worthy of being called a hill.

Sorry but I see nothing wrong with that? He's only saying what you're doing but phrasing it different. Would you put in the same complaint if a female worker said the same thing?

In this instance the innuendo is clear - this man is suggesting that your lips (mouth) or more likely your genital lips will be inflamed by sexual activity.

It's anything but clear - there's pages of people with different views on it here alone. I can certainly see both sides, but even with the low threshold of probability required in employee disciplinary cases, you're talking about taking a serious action (written/final warning or worse) based on something that could quite plausibly be a misunderstanding.

We also have zero surrounding context (outside of a OP referring to the man as a creep), so to say that it is clear, simply isn't correct.

As a general rule, raising a formal grievance about things like this will definitely change the culture, because organisations are very wary of having a paper trail like this.

She has raised a formal grievance and it's been rejected. So if what you say is correct, then OPs claim must have had very little merit, or there are important details/context missing.

It could be that they've interviewed everyone present and found them all to agree that it was clearly a misunderstanding on OPs part. It could be that their HR are shit. It could be anything, we don't know.

I agree with you that these processes play an important part in changing workplace culture, but they also shouldn't be deployed willy-nilly and they certainly weaponised against people you think are a bit weird, which is another potential scenario here.

I wouldn't because he did not mean it in that way. Your mind is really something else. Fill it with goodness and beauty and enjoy the live you've been given.

How old are you? Sounds like your world has been affected by porn culture. Do you sexualise everything and make it vulgar?

Tell that to the man who said it!!!

Can people please stop telling others what they can and cannot say on these boards? If we don't like lip filler, then we have every right to express that.

As for what he said, no, it was not sexual as not everyone has their mind in the gutter.

You would be horrified if people were talking about lip filler at work but you wouldn't take offence to a man saying 'she's getting her lips pumped (fucked)'.

I honestly live in a different world from most of you.

Oh that's filthy. Get your mind out of the gutter. You're exactly the result of porn culture and how it's infiltrated society.

You "immediately" understood as that it where your mind is. Not all men are vulgar.