No family support, anyone else? Help me find solutions.

Takes a village to raise a child.

if your families are not part of the tribe - you find your own one.

make friends at the school gate, invite people for play dates , find friends at church with similar ages kids.

you have theirs to play - they have yours to give yourself a break . As they get older you do sleepovers etc

Parenting can be lonely - do things with other families - share the liar of the kids as often 2 kids that get on will play without constant interaction from adults so you can supervise and socialise with the parents as bd get done adult conversation.

it’s not easy raiding kids - we never had any spare cash to pay for childcare or babysitters so we did these kind of play dates and swaps and sleepovers that really helped each other out. Worked really well and we all got so much from it. My best friend’s kid is my kids best friend - they are more like siblings (both in 20’s now) but we met at a group when tiny.

I get it Op. We had no help from my parents or in laws but our siblings with slightly older children got huge amounts. It was hard not to be resentful, particularly when siblings would moan about how hard they had it, but it doesn’t get you anywhere.

All you can really do is work out what bits bother you the most and try and get coverage. If you are going to pay £4k for nursery I would have a look at live in Nannie’s if you have the room, it may not be much more expensive all in. And it is a lot easier and flexible to manage around jobs.

that was the route we went down by the way and the (very few) child free nights we have had away were covered by her.

No family help here. 3 out of 4 grandparents are dead and 1 isn't interested. It's hard but it is what it is. I don't expect anyone, even family to take care of my child. That's the parents job. The only thing that upsets me is that my child won't have that close relationship with a grandparent that I had growing up. That hurts my heart for my child. I don't expect someone to make my life easier so whether I can go out for a night out or go to glastonbury or whatever I don't care about, I'm only sad for my child.

It's not a race to the bottom...but some people have it worse, I am a lone parent to 2 sons, have been for 9 years. My Father is estranged and unsafe, my Mother is uninterested unless I do the heavy lifting (driving, organise). I bought a home a year ago which needed much more work than first realised, I've had to do it all alone, working full time with one disabled child. I work in a fairly middle class industry, and I view family support and another form of wealth.

You have to accept and adapt. Do not expect change from anyone else, rely on yourself. It's not ideal, but it's the card that's been dealt and you will can build from there. You are not alone, although it's easy to feel that way when you see others with support, but you're not.

Bear in mind you’re at one of the hardest points re the ages of your children.

My mum died when I was 17, then dad died very suddenly when I was 24. So I always knew I wouldn’t have any help from my parents if I was going to have children! I miss them but I guess in some ways it’s easier than if they were around and could help but wouldn’t. PIL are lovely but they are very much for emergencies, they don’t live close enough to be regular childcare.

Our solution has been to just wait to be honest. My youngest is 2 next month (I can say that for another day!) and DS is 5 in December. They are a lot easier than when one was three and one was still a baby. I think when they are three and five I’ll be smiling and six and four I’ll be laughing.

When people post the oh just you waits about teens I often wonder if they are people who had a lot of support from their own parents to navigate the early years especially the under 3s!

Personally I'd advise against asking your sister in law if she's only just got her own off her hands. Maybe see if she offers.

But op has small children that do need to stick to some sort of routine, it's not acceptable for the inlaws to ignore that and still insist that dinner is at 6pm meaning op gets home late.

I haven't seen a post saying the in laws insist dinner must be at 6pm?

If that is the case, OP and her husband can use their words and say, 'can we possibly eat at lunchtime as we need to leave by xpm?'

I'm listening to the Let Them theory by Mel Robbins at the moment and it has lots of stuff about life not being fair and how to be more active and less passive. Highly recommend. Yes it's annoying (I had years of SIL saying ooh I could never put my kids in childcare, well she never had to) and I don't think it's uncommon, if you have moved to London, to have no help - but you will be a stronger person for having had to work things out yourself.

Just saw a post about friendships which made me realise I left something out of my first post. I totally agree with finding parent friends. Mum friends have been my lifeline sometimes. I have always made an effort at toddler groups, the school gates, at parties etc to talk to other parents (the nice ones 🤣) and arrange play dates. I’d arrange more play dates tbh but everyone is so busy! But it’s been so helpful to me to have people in the same boat and sometimes we help each other out. For example I’ve done school runs for friends who have had 9am hospital appointments, likewise they’ve helped me with the odd school pick up when I’ve been stuck. There is also a small group of mums that I socialise with. I’ve very much created my own village and I’m grateful for that, but you do have to put in and maintain the effort.

We had no parental help - mine both dead, and DH's mum caring for DH's dad who had alzheimers. So we got in au pairs, who were brilliant. Such a pressure valve if you were running late coming home from work, or if you were ill. Hopefully, this new EU young person's mobility scheme will start up soon and young families will be able to have au pairs again who rae keen to be part of a family to help improve their English.

Our DGC have both sets of GP. One set is very flexible but doesn’t offer, one set offers but is not at all flexible. Between us we take DGC on holiday from time to time, occasionally baby sit, sometimes have sleepovers, pick up from school weekly, cover all school holidays. Certainly there is no regular time off for parents, no 6am starts, no festival time which you describe.
I’d suggest two solutions to anyone in your situation. Ask for a sleepover on a Friday night as children are too tired to resist bedtime. Seek another family in your circumstances and exchange child care.

I just accepted that I’d never have any free time away from children. Used paid childcare for when at work.

On a practical level we both pay for flu jabs every year.

Yeah I agree with the idea that expectations play a role here. My own mother didn't have any family support so to me this is normal. What I didn't expect was to be in the minority and for people to be surprised at us not having anyone.

They are retired and as I say do plenty for BIL.

When your children get to age 8 and 6 you'll realise how unreasonable you're being. It's a completely different kettle of fish to a 9 month old and a 2 year old.

ETA: By then your in-laws will be in their 80's so of course you will again be a completely different situation to your BIL.

I know very few people who have childcare from grandparents. When DC was young we would:

• pay for a nursery worker to babysit- would have to do bedtime first, but could still get out for dinner

-go out separately with friends

-do reciprocal babysitting with friends we met from nursery

We live a few hours from one grandparent but actually found that once DC were older the grandparent was happy to have them to stay. Kids had to be out of nappies, able to get themselves to bed, which is fair enough, but it gave us the occasional night away to go to a wedding etc.

Oh for goodness sake. You've got a partner, 2 young children . You are a family of 4 and you took on a dog. Yep OK, you look at other people..they've got parents who drop everything to be with their kids and Grandkids at a moments notice, they've maybe got more money, they have lush holidays, they've got a big house..You've got a dysfunctional family on your side and older in laws who feel they've done their bit. They're in their mid seventies, they were much younger when your older nieces and nephews were small. They are now older, tired, maybe with some health niggles, not so agile and no they don't want to drive into London for you to gallivant and have lost the confidence to do so. You shouldn't expect it. Your children are perfectly normal, celebrate them, be good parents, interact with them and put their needs first instead of worrying about all the other things you could do. You chose to have children! You could be on your own with a severely disabled child, no job no money no respite. You need to fez up! Leaving your 2 children for anything but a couple of hours with an inexperienced 16yr old is not an option. You talk of getting an au pair, do you follow the news? These youngsters from oversees cannot get visas to work here. Maybe you have to look at your mental health, things you can do when the children are in bed, interactions with other mums while your older child is in nursery school. Things you can do as a family rather than dumping your kids to do adult things. Im sorry, weve all been in your position. . .you could be storing up trouble if you don't change and be more proactive with your children. I've got Grandchildren, the ages of yours and I have to say their company is wonderful and we don't have issues . The elder boy has excellent behaviour and social skills because that's how they are raised, their parents are never looking for others to care for them because they are the centre of their universe, they take them everywhere but when we've looked after them at our home ..by our choice because we're getting on it's been easy.

Non of our parents bothered which was hard and hurtful with small children. They favoured my sisters kids and rarely made an effort with mine
Now they’re older and need help, I leave it up to DSis. My kids are grown and I did it without any support and I’m not beholden to elderly parents either. You reap what you sow.
OP I’d just get on with your life and lower your expectations- don’t make your life difficult by visiting these people

Don't you have friends, OP? Much better idea than relying on people in their 70s!

We were the same, you can’t dwell on it or it will drag you down. You’re at a tough stage and it will get easier. Just focus on what you do have rather than what others have.

Loads of people don't have outside support. You decide to have kids and then you raise them. Any help you get is a bonus.

My mum had a stroke and then broke her hip and had balance issues before DS was born. She came to live with us when he was 3 and then developed severe vascular dementia and immobility and ended up in care when he was 5. She died when he was 7. I never left DS with her for even 5 minutes while I popped to the shop. She was able to read with him and do a jigsaw with him while I did chores but I always had to be within shouting distance and I was looking after her at this point (and working). It did mean that for a few years my son and his grandma had a lovely relationship though and I am grateful for that. My mum in law had cancer and died when DS was 2. Neither of them were ever well enough to offer child care or any more support than a cuppa and a chat. What I wouldn't give now to be able to drive 2 hours to visit either of them just to do that.

My now ExH had a brother who babysat a couple of times but it wasn't overly successful. We didn't see him often and DS wasn't keen on being left so we stopped it. I remember having a couple of nights out when he was school age and went on sleepovers at friends or was on a residential trip. We never went out/away without him other than that. If we wanted to have a meal out together we went earlier and he came with us. We had a drink at home when he was in bed.

ExH and I separated when DS was 11 and I can count on my fingers how many nights DS has slept away from home at his dads (he used to have him for a few hours during the day). I think he has taken him on 2 holidays. DS is now 18. Saying you don't see why you should put yourselves out to visit your husband's family (who he clearly wants to see) when they don't provide help seems very transactional and it doesn't sound like your husband agrees (visiting every couple of months is not excessive). It doesn't sound at all like you have made the peace with your situation that you say you have.

I can understand your frustration, but ithe oldest grandchild is 19, so PILs have been helping out with grandkids for almost 20 years, and are now mid 70s.
It's hard work looking after a 3 year old and 9 month old even at your age, never mind mid 70s.

You have to adjust your mindset and expectations I think. I’m a single parent. I mean this is the nicest possible way but coming home to a messy house after a busy weekend and giving my kids something speedy for dinner is a regular occurrence for me. My house is messy most of the time. My kids eat quick meals all of the time. I used to feel guilty about these things, like I should be modelling home cooked meals and an immaculate house all of the time, but I no longer dwell on them, because that way leads disaster and feeling shit which is worse for my children than having toast for dinner. It’s taken me 2 months to decorate the smallest room in my house, it would probably take 2 people with no kids 2/3 days.

My mum helps me with 2 school pick ups a week, I’m very lucky, but I wouldn’t ask her to have them overnight now, it would be too much for her. My ex in laws aren’t in good enough health to help. I get time to myself when my ex has the kids, sure, but I don’t get any “couple” time, because if it’s taken me 2 months to decorate a bedroom I can’t see how I can justify carving out time to date or have a relationship.

You’re clearly exhausted, so here are some suggestions and tips:

• carve out time to do something for you, hobby, meeting friends, don’t be ruled by the fact you’re a parent, have your own life too even if it’s away from your husband
• Tag team on weekends, so if the toddler is being a nightmare then one of you takes them to the park or somewhere. If the baby is teething and being tricky then one of you takes baby for a walk. You can adapt all this as kids get older. 1:1 time with kids is SO good for them. It’s one thing I wish I could do more of and it’s something you can do, don’t feel like you have to spend all your time together as a family of 4.
• pay a babysitter for date nights, this time of year is good to find a trusted one because uni students are coming home from the summer and want income. Try friends, Facebook groups, other parents for recommendations. My parents never had family support locally so I had a babysitter one night a week so they could go do their hobby together. It never did me any harm, and now I’m older I think, good for them.
• Just seen you use nurseries, ask them if any of their staff are allowed to babysit (some don’t allow it), my ds1’s key worker used to babysit a lot including overnights, it was a great side hustle for her. When both kids are in nursery book the odd day off together and you can have a date day or even just lunch out somewhere. This kind of thing is much easier to do before they start school and you’re juggling school holidays
• Tag team for lie ins on your non working days, so for example on Saturdays you get a lie in and then on Sunday your husband does.
• Accept you are in the trenches, it’s very hard at those ages, a 2 year gap sounds very hard work to me but people I know who have that gap says it’s much easier as they get older. Things like overnight wakings and early mornings usually improve as children get older then you won’t crave the lie ins and help so much because you’ll be getting the sleep you need.
• If you’ve had a really shit night and you’re exhausted you have to accept it. This sounds stupid but it’s something I had to learn, rather than fight it. You have to accept that won’t be firing on all cylinders every single day.
• Accept that you can’t do certain things, I have to accept that I can’t date, go on weekends away, or commit to certain hobbies and social gatherings. I’ve lost friends and I’ve had to accept that too because I haven’t got the time to maintain loads of friendships. Even work things, there was an important work all day meeting (sounds worse than it actually is 🤣) a few weeks ago but I’d already booked the day off as it was a school inset day. I don’t think my boss was very happy but I obviously can’t reschedule it so they just had to accept it. Years ago I would have tied myself in knots and got myself stressed out trying to work out how I could go.

I hope you get some sleep soon!!

But op has small children that do need to stick to some sort of routine, it's not acceptable for the inlaws to ignore that and still insist that dinner is at 6pm meaning op gets home late.

Op only go when it's suitable for you and your children, a visit is presented as help so only agree or stick to the helpful parts and decide to leave at an appropriate time if they aren't willing to adapt a bit for young children.

These threads about having no family support really bemuse me.
Do people have children expecting outside support as a given ?
I had my son 30 years ago .It wasn't a common expectation that other people would help, baby sit , take children overnight.
I stopped at one because I knew I couldn't cope with two.
No outside support.
I'm sure having support is more of a rarity and that the majority manage on their own.

I went on my own and DH had the kids.

It was still nice to go to the wedding but it was a bit sad being in a lovely romantic location with a load of other couples alone.