Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU to think I have no liability here? (diagram attached)

532 replies

WiggyClawsThe2nd · 30/06/2025 12:46

I think I'm fairly sure on this but can't stop panicking so I thought I'd ask on here.
Friday night I had a car accident. It was a real shock and it's only now that I've stopped to think about it that I'm feeling really really cross.
In the diagram I'm the blue line, the other driver is the green line. The thick lines show where we went, the thin lines indicate where you would have expected us to be going. Given that the lady tried to tell me she'd been going straight on when obviously she didn't makes me wonder if she had a mad moment!
Anyway, this particular roundabout leads onto a bridge over a dual carriageway. On the other side of this bridge you can go left onto a local road, or right to join the dual carriageway.
When we joined the roundabout, the other car was to my left. Neither of us indicated before joining the roundabout, however I did indicate left after I passed the 1st left exit as I was planning to go over the bridge and turn right to join the duel carriageway. As I was about to leave the roundabout the lady turned in front of me to head back round the roundabout and I hit her in the side of the car. Slow speed, maybe 15 mph.
It turns out that we have the same insurance company just to complicate matters.
I'm pretty sure that she is liable for this accident, what do you all think?

YABU: you are liable
YANBU: you are not liable

AIBU to think I have no liability here? (diagram attached)
OP posts:
Thread gallery
38
sandyhappypeople · 30/06/2025 21:03

popcornpower2025 · 30/06/2025 20:56

What image are you looking at?

This one, diagram shows where OPs car would be (in blue) and the lady's car (in red). But the other picture shows the view from the left lane at that position, there is no white line to say the person on the left has to go straight on.. it's common sense that the right lane also goes straight on, but there is nothing on the island to make it compulsory.

There is no straight on only lane for the left lane, terrible design.

This is the correct roundabout.

AIBU to think I have no liability here? (diagram attached)
AIBU to think I have no liability here? (diagram attached)
Icedlatteplease · 30/06/2025 21:02

gottabereallyhonest · 30/06/2025 20:55

What picture?

In the section of the highway code on roundabouts.

In reality it wil most likely entirely hinge on the road markings. Tbh I'd be surprised if given the OPs account their wasn't road markings that support the use of that lane straight ahead. Still unlikely to be a no fault accident even if she was in the right lane

Icedlatteplease · 30/06/2025 20:58

popcornpower2025 · 30/06/2025 20:56

What image are you looking at?

The op hasn't revealed the location of the actual junction. Other people have guessed it

popcornpower2025 · 30/06/2025 20:56

sandyhappypeople · 30/06/2025 20:54

They haven't installed one though, it is literally blank space, if it WAS a proper right hand exit off the island to a right hand dual carriageway, it would have white lines running along the left of it to prohibit the person on the left crossing your path, there is nothing there and nothing on the run up to the either either.

Entrances to islands don't always correspond to exits, you can have multiple lanes leading up to an island to ease the flow of traffic, not because those lanes correspond to multiple exits, OP was coming off a single carriageway to an island then a dual carriageway.

If the entering lanes led to specific exiting lanes they would be marked on the road AND on the island.

Woman was still at fault, but OP and everyone who uses that island in that way are just doing it because it is obviously intended to be used that way, the markings just don't show it though, so prove nothing.

What image are you looking at?

gottabereallyhonest · 30/06/2025 20:55

Icedlatteplease · 30/06/2025 20:55

The picture

What picture?

Icedlatteplease · 30/06/2025 20:55

gottabereallyhonest · 30/06/2025 20:52

Look, I know you've uploaded a link to the highway code, and I replied to that message, but can you not copy & paste the exact section of it where you have seen it say that only the left lane can be used to go straight over? Because I've looked, and looked, and looked again, and I can't see it. And yet you sound so very sure.

The picture

sandyhappypeople · 30/06/2025 20:54

popcornpower2025 · 30/06/2025 20:41

Have you actually looked at the diagram? Do you think they installed a right hand lane on the exit just for fun and not for anyone to actually use?

They haven't installed one though, it is literally blank space, if it WAS a proper right hand exit off the island to a right hand dual carriageway, it would have white lines running along the left of it to prohibit the person on the left crossing your path, there is nothing there and nothing on the run up to the either either.

Entrances to islands don't always correspond to exits, you can have multiple lanes leading up to an island to ease the flow of traffic, not because those lanes correspond to multiple exits, OP was coming off a single carriageway to an island then a dual carriageway.

If the entering lanes led to specific exiting lanes they would be marked on the road AND on the island.

Woman was still at fault, but OP and everyone who uses that island in that way are just doing it because it is obviously intended to be used that way, the markings just don't show it though, so prove nothing.

gottabereallyhonest · 30/06/2025 20:52

Icedlatteplease · 30/06/2025 20:49

Tbh I'm not sure it matters. There to be seen still applies. But are you suggesting she is moving into a lane that doesn't continue?

Again i dont think that wouldn't change you both being in the wrong lane and you should have seen the other car checking your mirrors and blind spot. But again I would want to be checking out the other persons statement and the actual road markings

Of course we're human and we don't always see things, which is part of the value of insurance. But I would be very surprised if this came out entirely in you favor

Look, I know you've uploaded a link to the highway code, and I replied to that message, but can you not copy & paste the exact section of it where you have seen it say that only the left lane can be used to go straight over? Because I've looked, and looked, and looked again, and I can't see it. And yet you sound so very sure.

Icedlatteplease · 30/06/2025 20:52

popcornpower2025 · 30/06/2025 20:49

Which OP did, as there was no exit after 12 o clock.

The highway code does not say you use
The left hand lane unless there is no right hand turn.

It says to follow all road markings and take the left hand lane going straight ahead.

Which means if you are going straight ahead you take the left hand lane unless road markings indicate you may take the right

It really isn't this complicated

Icedlatteplease · 30/06/2025 20:49

WiggyClawsThe2nd · 30/06/2025 20:41

The markings show that the lane to continue round the roundabout to the right is not usable. There are white hatches to stop you going round in the outside lane past the 2nd exit.

Tbh I'm not sure it matters. There to be seen still applies. But are you suggesting she is moving into a lane that doesn't continue?

Again i dont think that wouldn't change you both being in the wrong lane and you should have seen the other car checking your mirrors and blind spot. But again I would want to be checking out the other persons statement and the actual road markings

Of course we're human and we don't always see things, which is part of the value of insurance. But I would be very surprised if this came out entirely in you favor

popcornpower2025 · 30/06/2025 20:49

Icedlatteplease · 30/06/2025 20:43

Doesn't matter how or why they installed it. Only matters you use it correctly

Which OP did, as there was no exit after 12 o clock.

gottabereallyhonest · 30/06/2025 20:47

popcornpower2025 · 30/06/2025 20:41

Have you actually looked at the diagram? Do you think they installed a right hand lane on the exit just for fun and not for anyone to actually use?

Have you actually looked at the diagram? Do you think they installed a right hand lane on the exit just for fun and not for anyone to actually use?

I am beginning to think they do think that.

sandyhappypeople · 30/06/2025 20:46

WiggyClawsThe2nd · 30/06/2025 20:41

The markings show that the lane to continue round the roundabout to the right is not usable. There are white hatches to stop you going round in the outside lane past the 2nd exit.

There isn't on this view of it, it shows two lanes going round the island.

No one in their right mind would go from the left lane and carry on around the island, knowing cars to the right of them are going straight on, but it is a very ambiguous exit.

AIBU to think I have no liability here? (diagram attached)
WiggyClawsThe2nd · 30/06/2025 20:44

popcornpower2025 · 30/06/2025 20:41

Have you actually looked at the diagram? Do you think they installed a right hand lane on the exit just for fun and not for anyone to actually use?

Exactly my point. Not to mention we were both part of 2 snakes of traffic, one snake going onto the bridge to turn left, and one snake going onto the bridge to turn right.

OP posts:
Icedlatteplease · 30/06/2025 20:43

popcornpower2025 · 30/06/2025 20:41

Have you actually looked at the diagram? Do you think they installed a right hand lane on the exit just for fun and not for anyone to actually use?

Doesn't matter how or why they installed it. Only matters you use it correctly

popcornpower2025 · 30/06/2025 20:42

Sherararara · 30/06/2025 20:37

Which one is it then? Your pic shows the Patcham interchange.

Edited

Op didn't upload that picture though

popcornpower2025 · 30/06/2025 20:41

Icedlatteplease · 30/06/2025 20:39

But you were going straight ahead in the right hand lane. That was the wrong lane Unless the road markings indicate otherwise. Essentially you were both in the wrong lane (Unless markings indicate otherwise)

I do think youre on a sticky wicket. Your statement implies you didn't see her as you changed lanes. It could well be argued that the proximite cause of the accident wasn't either of you being in the wrong lane, but you're failure to see her as you crossed lanes. The damage areas would support this. There is case law to say that if someone does something wrong but is still there to be seen the primary liability rests with the car who fails to see, the car initially in the wrong would take a degree of contributing liability.

Certainly if I'd had your statement on front of me I'd have been frantically Google earthing the junction in the hope the road markings saved you or the other parties witness statement is worse than yours, otherwise youre damned by your own statement.

But it has been a little while

Have you actually looked at the diagram? Do you think they installed a right hand lane on the exit just for fun and not for anyone to actually use?

WiggyClawsThe2nd · 30/06/2025 20:41

Icedlatteplease · 30/06/2025 20:39

But you were going straight ahead in the right hand lane. That was the wrong lane Unless the road markings indicate otherwise. Essentially you were both in the wrong lane (Unless markings indicate otherwise)

I do think youre on a sticky wicket. Your statement implies you didn't see her as you changed lanes. It could well be argued that the proximite cause of the accident wasn't either of you being in the wrong lane, but you're failure to see her as you crossed lanes. The damage areas would support this. There is case law to say that if someone does something wrong but is still there to be seen the primary liability rests with the car who fails to see, the car initially in the wrong would take a degree of contributing liability.

Certainly if I'd had your statement on front of me I'd have been frantically Google earthing the junction in the hope the road markings saved you or the other parties witness statement is worse than yours, otherwise youre damned by your own statement.

But it has been a little while

The markings show that the lane to continue round the roundabout to the right is not usable. There are white hatches to stop you going round in the outside lane past the 2nd exit.

OP posts:
Icedlatteplease · 30/06/2025 20:39

WiggyClawsThe2nd · 30/06/2025 20:17

And the first exit was before the straight ahead

But you were going straight ahead in the right hand lane. That was the wrong lane Unless the road markings indicate otherwise. Essentially you were both in the wrong lane (Unless markings indicate otherwise)

I do think youre on a sticky wicket. Your statement implies you didn't see her as you changed lanes. It could well be argued that the proximite cause of the accident wasn't either of you being in the wrong lane, but you're failure to see her as you crossed lanes. The damage areas would support this. There is case law to say that if someone does something wrong but is still there to be seen the primary liability rests with the car who fails to see, the car initially in the wrong would take a degree of contributing liability.

Certainly if I'd had your statement on front of me I'd have been frantically Google earthing the junction in the hope the road markings saved you or the other parties witness statement is worse than yours, otherwise youre damned by your own statement.

But it has been a little while

MycatLarry · 30/06/2025 20:38

SillyMillieMops · 30/06/2025 12:55

Rule of thumb is if you’re exiting after ‘12 o’clock’ you should be in the right hand lane.

And up to '12 o'clock' you should be in the left hand lane on this roundabout. So you were both in the wrong.

Sherararara · 30/06/2025 20:37

WiggyClawsThe2nd · 30/06/2025 20:35

Wrong interchange

Which one is it then? Your pic shows the Patcham interchange.

WiggyClawsThe2nd · 30/06/2025 20:36

Wakeywakey678 · 30/06/2025 20:35

@grumpygrape had the best reply 👏

Also to add... I'm not specialist here, but she undertook you on a roundabout also. So that's surely another factor that makes the other driver liable! I don't think you have anything to worry about. Even if it gets to the stage where you have to submit diagrams etc, don't let this drop as you are not in the wrong. 🙏

Hadn't even thought about undertaking! Thank you!

OP posts:
WiggyClawsThe2nd · 30/06/2025 20:35

Sherararara · 30/06/2025 20:27

This is the Patcham interchange?
Coming from the 6oclock position per your diagram there are two lanes. But only one lane crosses the bridge straight ahead which is contrary to your description of two lanes carrying on. The road markings clearly show that the right lane on the roundabout is right turn only ie carry on going around the roundabout. If you are in the right lane and intend to go straight on you would need to carefully merge into the left lane.
Equally of the other driver came up on the left lane and intended to go right she was definetly in the the wrong lane.
Therefore i would conclude you are both at fault and go 50/50

Wrong interchange

OP posts:
Wakeywakey678 · 30/06/2025 20:35

@grumpygrape had the best reply 👏

Also to add... I'm not specialist here, but she undertook you on a roundabout also. So that's surely another factor that makes the other driver liable! I don't think you have anything to worry about. Even if it gets to the stage where you have to submit diagrams etc, don't let this drop as you are not in the wrong. 🙏

Sherararara · 30/06/2025 20:27

This is the Patcham interchange?
Coming from the 6oclock position per your diagram there are two lanes. But only one lane crosses the bridge straight ahead which is contrary to your description of two lanes carrying on. The road markings clearly show that the right lane on the roundabout is right turn only ie carry on going around the roundabout. If you are in the right lane and intend to go straight on you would need to carefully merge into the left lane.
Equally of the other driver came up on the left lane and intended to go right she was definetly in the the wrong lane.
Therefore i would conclude you are both at fault and go 50/50

AIBU to think I have no liability here? (diagram attached)