be outraged by the sexism in girls swimwear and underwear

Not when your budget is Asda.

Compare budget boys clothes to girls clothes.

Well, yes, sometimes women really are their own worst enemies.

I wear leggings pretty much every day for exercising. Love them. So comfortable. I hate having material flapping about when I’m doing yoga or Pilates.

The patriarchy doesn't dictate how you dress your daughter and what values you teach her

I remember looking for dressing up clothes for dd. The doctor outfit was labelled boys and the nurse labelled girls. I complained.

The sex differences are everywhere.

I absolutely agree with this.

Wearing highly sexualized clothing at any age is no more empowering than wearing a burqa. Both were designed with the needs and wants of men in mind.

It is possible to avoid all the skimpy clothing for girls but it most certainly takes effort it should not be this hard. And our daughters should not feel different just because we haven’t sexualised them.

the cropped tops infuriates me. And the short length of shorts and skirts. I buy a lot second hand and my dd thankfully likes boy clothes for some stuff it I hate aged 8 she’s asking why the girl clothes don’t cover her up like boys and asking why. How do you answer that without taking their innocence?!

Because they buy it when other options are readily available.

Which bit?

An interesting thing about all the singers you mention is that they are traditional musicians, in the sense that most write their own music, or at least have a lot of influence on the arrangements, they also can all really sing. They are artists as much as performers and they aren't interchangeable, they have something special and unique.

Quite a lot of pop stars are manufactured, possibly reasonable singers (though not always) but singing songs written by other people, arranged by others, and engineered within an inch of their lives, their style, look and marketing is all run by other people. Singers like this typically have very little power to start with, and while they might come to have more, they really are easily interchangeable for a new, fresher, more compliant product.

Those people tend to be the ones leaning hard into sex appeal to sell records.

I find the swimwear options for girls better now, tbh, mainly I think because of increased emphasis on sun protection. We spend a fair bit of time in the tropics where our extended family is and no way my blond kids could go around in skimpy swim suits.

But overall, yes, the differernce between the girl and boys clothes is stark. I find it crazy that people will tell me their daughters "need" to wear little crop tops and such for running or sports, because apparently they need tiny tight fitting things to do sports. All the while the boys seem to be wearing fairly normal covering clothes.

On swimwear I’d hate to wear what men wear, big heavy shorts- how do you swim? (That’s just an aside as I don’t have girls but yes I’d guess there should be better options for coverage)

I hate leggings, they are so horrible as a look for girls especially.

It depresses me tbh. Ds asked age 6 'why do boys wear baggy shorts, and girls wear little tight ones?'.

I answered something about we can all choose to wear any shorts we like, but actually wanted to say:

Because there's a perpetual cycle of: women liking to dress to attract the male gaze, men gaze at women's bodies, so women want to show them off, and girls at a certain age want to emulate older teens, designers produce clothes that sell, and then parents (presumably mostly mothers) buy clothes that are available/ promoted/ wanted by their daughters.

The uniform at dcs primary school just says navy shorts for PE. It surprises me that already in yr 3, a lot of girls are wearing tight hot pants, already being socialised that that is what is cool (don't mean they dress that way to appeal to boys, but just a general sense that that is a good look).

I wish more girls would wear board shorts/ baggier school shorts etc.

As a mother of boys, I fight my own battles to not buy camoflage/ little monster type rubbish, but that's another thread.

What power dynamics? Adele, Winehouse, Alanis Morisette, Gaga, Billie Eilish (off the top of my head) all made it pretty big despite being more or less pretty average looking and (Gaga aside) keeping their clothes on. I agree it’s harder for women performers to resist the societal/record label pressure in the celebrity world. But women should expect other women to do so, not make excuses for them when they strip off so they can more easily stay high up on the ladder.

YANBU. It’s the same with general clothing too.

Leggings are the worst for this. So form fitting. Why?!?!

You are deluded about the reality of the power dynamics at play

Girls clothes are a disgrace and have been on and off forever. As a 60 year old I've seen it all come and go over the years.

As a primary aged kid the skirts were stupid short, as a secondary school kid the skirts were midi, I modelled and hated baggy and draughty crop tops. 90s kids got a break with proper comfy stuff, early 00s were all about pink vs blue and on and on. Basically, never ever have girls tops been long enough except maybe in the 90s. Practical clothing doesn't cater for any tall adult. Men would never put up with this

We spend so much time telling our children that their private parts are private and just for them. And then this comment comes along

@Pinkfluffypencilcase this is just nonsense

We live in a patraiachal society which women can choose to embrace or show a minimal bit of resistance too. If any of these performers I mentioned were being pressured into dressing like, that they could easily come out as powerful well known names and shame the record labels/individuals concerned.

@LittleHangleton

those of us who are larger need bras as it’s uncomfortable to not wear one, it’s not just about aesthetics

Lots of places do shorts/trunks/hipster brief type underwear and swimwear for girls - as always with these threads you're shopping in the wrong places/not looking hard enough - Lindex and Polarn o Pyret are very good for underwear their girls boxer briefs are exactly the same fabric as the boys.

Less outrage more googling.