Relatives living with us - no jobs

Agree. How has week 11 been for you @BunnyVV ?

The conversation does not have to be difficult if you keep any anger out of it.

Give them the benefit of the doubt. Take the view that they genuinely have not understood what they are doing wrong. Then explain to them what you expected, what other guests have done and why their behaviour is not acceptable, and then spell out exactly what you want them to do in future.

If they react badly to that then unfortunately you can no longer give them the benefit of the doubt and they will have to move out.

You sound really nice OP. The trouble is you’re too nice, which shouldn’t be a thing but it is because some people will take advantage of you as these guests are. I think you’ve realised you have to be firm, but it can be difficult to do that if you’re not used to having to. There’s some great advice from other posters about how to have to conversation. The other thing I would do is stop buying the smoked salmon and the nice chocolate for now. You’re not going to get to enjoy it and it will be less stress for you to not keep being wound up by them taking more than their fair share.

@BunnyVV Have you sat them down to have a difficult conversation yet? Maybe they need to go back home and re-evaluate what they want. It seems that what they want right now is to sit on their bums and be supported by you.
If that is not in your wheelhouse, you need to stop allowing it. Not everyone is ready to strike out on their own so, perhaps, them going back to their real home, will make them decide what they want from life. Because, sponging off you is not sustainable or good for anyone.

Best of luck on your talk.

Well in that case, she’s letting “arseholes” live with her three kids.

Hmm, that may be the problem here if op sees it like that.

However, op is used to inviting people into her home in order to give them a (temporary) helping hand, so she should already understand that different people come into new situations with different assumptions and expectations.

Setting out some ground rules about expected behaviours from your guests is not in any way confrontational. In fact it may make people more comfortable if they know what the boundaries are.

I think op's biggest mistake is in not having the conversation with her guests weeks ago.

This is true. But if OP is like me, she deeply resents being forced into confrontation by people who are fundamentally arseholes 😜

Agree that the OP seems paralysed to have a reasonable, calm conversation - maybe she is worried about erupting emotion - hers? or theirs? or their parents? Maybe its a family system that somewhere along the line was controlled by volatility?

Hopefully @BunnyVV can see that her preferences, requests, boundaries, deadlines and consequences are reasonable and she is entitled to hold them in her home without justification - BUT she is also responsible and accountable for communicating them explicity in situations where they are seemingly not implicity understood.

Hopefully OP has gained enough insight to prepare herself to do something she clearly feels very uncomfortable doing - having the calm assertive conversation - (feel the fear and do it anyway) and see having this conversation sucessfully as a personal growth opportunity for herself - believing she will feel a burden lifted once the words are said.

You know OP you are quite articulate and well able to explain what your expectations are from your guests.

Like others I'm puzzled what you want to get from this thread. You seem much more interested in defending your position to people on here than in dealing with the situation at home. 🤔

Just sit your guests down and tell them what the rules are (which you have explained very nicely above).

Good luck 🤞

I reckon come Feb / Mar, you daughter will be heading in to the box room.

Because those rellies will still be living it up at the OP’s

What happened when you had the chat with them OP?

You expect them to behave in the way you would behave or in the way the previous visitors behaved. They aren't behaving in that way because they aren't you and they aren't the previous visitors either.
You need to tell them what the expectations and boundaries are.

But @BunnyVV is really only expecting her relatives to behave with basic manners, decency and responsibility.

It's not normal to freeload on relatives (or anyone really) for almost 3 months. Not normal at all, so let's not blame the OP, but help her find a way to get them either contributing or out of her house.

You could discuss this as a cross roads. Its up to them to understand whats required to live and work in your country - its then up to them to decide if its for them or not - but an interlude 'holiday' at your expense is not an option. So they need to decide if they are cut out for multiple hospitality jobs with lots of travel or not. Maybe if they are from somewhere rural and remote with a slow pace of life - this lifestyle is alien and unacceptable to them. Thats fine. Also they need a reality check. I had a family teenagers / young adults staying with me and the situation was similar (they didnt touch my food - were entitled to benefits so bought and cooked their own food and took on weekly chores) - however their expectations were totally unrealistic. They believed that they would get top jobs and applied to many - got no where (as zero work experience). In the end one went home. The other got a job in a pub in Covent Garden which came with very cheap and good quality accomodation over it. She never saw herself as a hospitality worker (was v wealthy in her home country - where she never needed to work) - but she grafted 6 days a week took full advantage of everything culturally in walking distance and had a ball. A year later she lands her dream job in events and is doing great. She doesnt have much disposable income as she is now paying normal rent but she now understands that that there is no high speed golden elevator to riches in London which this SM generation likely believed.

I had the blunt conversation at 12 weeks as my committment was only for 6 months and half way thru - sunbathing in my garden whilst we were all out at work (including my 16 year old DD working full time on a farm for the summer) was grinding my gears. I realised it was a conflict of my own values and their lack of insight on reality. I outlined the facts that they would need 6 months rent up front in 3 months time and there were zero other options. It was an uncomfortable conversation. I didn't expect or want to do it. But my intentions were for everyones benefit. And ultimately it was. I did not want to 'kick them out' in 3 months time, I did not want them homeless in 3 months time, I did not want them to stay sunbathing beyond that deadline. They were very comfortable in my home and with my friendly, genrous and welcoming friends and neighbours (who also did support with connections for jobs - not taken). The subsidised accomodation which came with the pub job cost only £60/week including bills - she was also fed at work - so she saved loads for her 6 months rent up front when she moved to her dream job. A right bargain for central London. She had a ball - went to free jazz clubs in Soho after work etc, met to so many new young friends - and it was a brilliant stepping stone. Is there a similar option where you are?

@Laurmolonlabe Brexit would have no bearing on an EU citizen's right to work in the EU.

As you try to deliver your speech, they will interrupt and you won't get out all you want to say.
I have found in the past the best way is to write them a letter, leave it in their room, they can read it, re-read it, think about it together. Then you can discuss it. It works.

You expect them to behave in the way you would behave or in the way the previous visitors behaved. They aren't behaving in that way because they aren't you and they aren't the previous visitors either.
You need to tell them what the expectations and boundaries are.

How long will you continue to house and feed them if they don't have jobs? Tell them what you expect them to do and give them a deadline. If they don't they will have to leave and either rent a place or go home.

You don't want them eating expensive food, chocolates, drinking gin etc. Tell them there are x number of family meals per day. If they need a snack during the day they can have fruit or toast or they can buy something themselves. They are not to touch the smoked salmon, chocolate, whatever. If they keep doing it I'd remind them every time and I would lock the treats away.

You're very shocked that they aren't behaving the way you or the previous visitors would. You need to stop being shocked and tell them. You've been quite snippy with people on here so I'm pretty sure you've got it in you to have a straightforward conversation with them.

This is a helpful model for preparing, structuring and delivering difficult conversations:

The COIN model:

Context:
This initial step sets the stage by providing the background or situation in which the feedback is relevant.

Observation:
The next step involves describing specific, factual observations of the behavior or situation. It's crucial to avoid subjective judgments and stick to observable facts.

Impact:
This step focuses on explaining the consequences of the observed behavior or situation, both for the individual and potentially for the team or organization.

Next Steps:
Finally, the conversation shifts to collaboratively agreeing on specific actions or behaviors to improve or address the situation in the future.

Write it out. Practice it and then deliver it and walk away. You could follow up with a avery brief factual text on what was 'agreed'.

That's not what the French authorities said, this was pre Brexit.

@Laurmolonlabe AGAIN, Brexit and the right to work in the UK is irrelevant, they are NOT IN THE UK. Does no-one ever read the thread? They can and need to get jobs right away. (And if your mother has an EU passport she does have the right to live and work in France, just as much as a French person).

Can you put your salmon etc in a carrier bag within fridge and put your name on it? That’s what I would do. They might get the hint. Maybe they think you are really well off and don’t mind? You need to let them know without it then becoming an issue. Does your husband say anything?

I would check their EU passport gives them the right to work here- my understanding is that after Brexit this right is not universal (I'm not sure it ever was universal-my mother moved to France and she could not work merely with an EU passport). It may be they are dragging their feet and making the most of your hospitality because they have been told by potential employers they can't employ them without a work visa.

I would be interested to know if they are Australian or kiwis !! My friend shacked up many years ago with a great looking and fun Aussie guy who used to invite all his mates over to stay in ‘her’ flat - and both he and his mates expected the fridge to be stocked up with top of the range tiger prawns, smoked salmon and top of the range wine and other such ( Xmas luxuries) type produce all year round - and yep she was paying - and she had a friend in a very similar situation too -seems an awful lot of them whilst sociable and fun were perfectly happy to be freeloading cheapskates - sorry any Aussies on here , I’m sure some are perfectly great guests, but in my experience you’ve got a reputation here in UK for this kind of freeloading ( mainly male by the way)

Hi OP. I've read all your messages but haven't had time to read everyones so excuse me if i'm repeating!
Can I assume that the family staying are very young? I only ask as yes it is very lazy of them but knowing from my 3 sons, 2 of them would be out working earning money, the other would need a bomb up his bum and a good talking to to realise what he was doing is wrong. He's lazy in thought rather than in body. Holds a full-time job and is up at 5am most mornings but the days he's not he's in bed til mid day and wouldn't think to put the bins out.
I think an honest frank discussion and maybe leaving them their own shelf in the fridge and a cupboard informing them those items that they've bought and only those items are for them to 'help themselves'. Anything else is a wait to be offered. Only when they are limited to food etc. will they feel the need to work.
At the moment your kindness is just enabling them. It is a lovely thing you are doing though OP. x

YANBU OP. When you think things are well understood by everyone involved and all the others who have come over have understood the norms, it can be a shock to be faced with people who blithely ignore it all and make you regret your offer of assistance. Write out what you want to say and practice on your DH. Then sit them down and tell them. Have a few stock phrases you can pull out if they protest or try to convince you it will all be different so you don't leave the conversation unfinished.

Giving them a deadline is one approach, but I think LurkyMcLurkinson's idea of telling them they obviously aren't cut out for this and discussing how they will head back is better. They do not have what it takes to pull themselves up by their bootstraps. They are ignoring the normal understanding of how they should be taking advantage of your accommodation because they don't want that life. You can't make a success of a big move like that if you aren't driven and prepared to throw yourself into it, won't take whatever opportunities are going and want to be picky about stuff.

So if they stay, even if they do get a job in two weeks and start making some contribution, they are likely to need several more kicks up the backside to get to a situation where they're really standing on their own two feet. And it will be you having to do the kicking each time and supporting all the while.

Tell them they have had 10 weeks and they need to start paying their way, now. So bar work/stacking shelves needs to happen straight away- otherwise they have to leave.