Where are the trans men?

Also, since when were segregated sports actually made to protect us? They were made to keep us out of the “boys clubs”, I remember back in the days of real feminism we used to dream about playing alongside the men.

An Adult human female, which for me includes trans women.

trans women are women in my eyes and trans men are men. No amount of bigotry or dog whistling is changing my opinion on that and I’m thankful that most outside of the mums net echo chamber seem to agree with me on that

@KerryAnnSalford - but you know (and we know!) trans identifying men are men. Or otherwise how do you answer: what is a woman?

The amount of trans women even competing in sports is negligible, so idk why this is being used as a soundboard when discussing the very real struggles they face in the world (including sexism, because transphobia at its route is enshrined in misogyny and the idea that being a woman is “less” so how could somebody possibly be a “woman by choice” and that any trans men are just trying to “get male privilege”. The arguments in themselves are stupid. Trans people are far more likely to be victims than perpetrators and the hostility around them is just making things more unsafe not just for them for ALL of us. I’ve lost track of the amount of times I’ve been accused of being a man by another woman just because I’m a bit taller and have a squarer jawline (of course I do! My parents are Dutch for godsake)

Also, since when were segregated sports actually made to protect us? They were made to keep us out of the “boys clubs”, I remember back in the days of real feminism we used to dream about playing alongside the men.

“There are young straight women who identify as gay men and who are starting to encroach on gay men's spaces. The men don't like it because it kills the mood.”

I don’t agree at all. The gay men for the most part don’t seem to mind a great deal. Women are at risk in these spaces physically, even if they think they’re men.

The amount of trans women even competing in sports is negligible, so idk why this is being used as a soundboard when discussing the very real struggles they face in the world (including sexism, because transphobia at its route is enshrined in misogyny and the idea that being a woman is “less” so how could somebody possibly be a “woman by choice” and that any trans men are just trying to “get male privilege”. The arguments in themselves are stupid. Trans people are far more likely to be victims than perpetrators and the hostility around them is just making things more unsafe not just for them for ALL of us. I’ve lost track of the amount of times I’ve been accused of being a man by another woman just because I’m a bit taller and have a squarer jawline (of course I do! My parents are Dutch for godsake)

Whereas female people are about 50% of the population and in some situations, not just physical but also social, professional and cultural, we face signifcantly different experiences, risks and challenges to male people because of our physical sex and the way our culture's mores and expectations are still shaped by the sexism of the past.

So we should be able to allowed to sometimes define ourselves by our sex, as people who share the same needs because of our sex instead of people who all the same sort of mixed sex hand wavy gender/personality type.

It should not be controversial to say that since we face sexism because of our sex, and sexual assault because of our sex, and bear a higher physical, social and often economic cost of raising children because of our sex, we have the moral right to mitigate these things.

And it should not be controversial that at times that can include saying we only want to compete in sports with people of the same sex, or we only want to be touched for intimate treatment or care by someone the same sex, or we only want to be counseled or supported by someone of the same sex, or we only want to be in spaces we are partially clothed or otherwise in a state men are known to fetishise with someone of the same sex, or we want to create a professional support network or training or one to one mentoring that is specific to our sex and the challenges of our sex to create opportunities for our sex.

And these things should not be considered to be somehow an act of hate or rejection of trans women because ultimately it's nothing to do with trans women and whatever they feel about themselves and what is fair to them, it's about what female people need and what is fair to us.

And if the rights trans people are asking for cannot allow for this, the problem is not with women, the problem is with what they are asking for.

I’m sorry but even if there were small pockets of men pretending to be trans women, it doesn’t justify the way trans women get spoken about here or in the wider discussion, nor is it something I’m worried about going to the toilet. Trans women are less than 1% of the population, so any “men pretending to be trans women” is going to be even lower.

The reality is men don’t need to pretend to be trans women to attack us, they certainly aren’t going through HRT or public ridicule from bigots in order to do it. They’re just everyday men hiding in plane sight. You’re more likely to be attacked by a man in your own home than you are a trans women or “man pretending to be trans”

im sorry but women who spend their whole time spouting off about where trans women go to the toilet or seek help for domestic abuse themselves is so so wrong and gives men a free pass whilst we scapegoat yet another minority of people. It’s so so wrong.

I can’t relate to what people on here are saying really. I know lots of transmen,far far more than transwomen. I guess it’s the industry I work in . I do feel they’re a threat, albeit a subtle policy changing force rather than a physical threat. Most of the transmen i’ve encountered have been highly academic people who’ve embraced transitioning with the same evangelical attitude as someone who has discovered a new diet, and therefore are intent and borderline obsessed with the world changing to accommodate them. They purposefully and persistently infiltrate every organisation with their requirements. These policy changes work both ways and ultimately affect woman more than men. I personally feel dragged under the bus by trans men who have opted out of being women and now try to erode women’s rights in the process .
Aside from this the surgery is brutal with extreme risks.

I think it may depend on where you live/work.

I live a few miles from Brighton, which I'm told has a trans community that is above the national average per capita. And I work for an organisation that is shit hot on equalities issues and known to be a trans friendly employer.

It's entirely understandable that, as a result of the above factors, I'm likely to know more trans people than someone living in the Scottish highlands or a former steel and mining community in Wales.

Extraordinary the number of MNers who know “loads” of trans people, given that by all accounts they are a teeny tiny minority. Even the fucked-up ONS figures have them as less that 0.1% of the population, don’t they? But yet they all know an MNer 🙄.

As others have said, women who ID as trans are not a threat to men in the way men are to women. But it’s noticeable that among children, it’s predominantly girls these days, whereas middle-aged women rarely seem to have a road to Damascus moment when they realise they’ve been a man all along.

Extraordinary the number of MNers who know “loads” of trans people, given that by all accounts they are a teeny tiny minority. Even the fucked-up ONS figures have them as less that 0.1% of the population, don’t they? But yet they all know an MNer 🙄.

As others have said, women who ID as trans are not a threat to men in the way men are to women. But it’s noticeable that among children, it’s predominantly girls these days, whereas middle-aged women rarely seem to have a road to Damascus moment when they realise they’ve been a man all along.

Im sorry to see you were assaulted and had no justice either. Disgusting.

I have had so many conversations on here about TW and I have to say always been spoken to respectfully. I do understand the frustration women feel and fear of sharing spaces with biological men. I get it, it’s quite new for many women and worse there are men who are predatory in nature and will take advantage. And Im often asked here how can women spot a fake TW, so predatory male dressed in women’s clothes and I don’t have an answer for that, unfortunately. But I do know that some of the most abusive men, some of the most prolific offenders are wearing disguises of being respected community members. They’re your fathers, husbands, brothers and sons. And you may never know or you may even be a victim to them yourself. The issue isn't TW for me, it’s a small minority of men who will use trans as a weapon to abuse. And what these men are doing is allowing women to tear each other to shreds, not even TW, cis/natural/women women on the others views and creating this massive divide. When women should unify and agree we don’t care if we’re raped by a man wearing a dress, a man wearing a suit, we simply don’t want to be raped. If we could fight for our rights with as much passion to simply not be raped in toilets by anyone, that would be terrific.

Once again, Im sorry to hear of your experience. I was also raped by a man and whilst I agree there will be predators who will abuse women’s spaces to rape us, I ultimately was going to be raped by that man, regardless of what he was wearing and had he have worn lipstick and heels, I’d have (personally, not speaking for anyone but me here) not felt any more violated than I was by him wearing a tracksuit.

I wish you the best on your journey of recovering from your attack.

I think they are, it’s just they 1) aren’t a physical threat to men; 2) aren’t stealing medals and awards from men; 3) aren’t as threatening and spiteful as TIMs when they don’t get their way or when boundaries are asserted. So, they just don’t draw attention to themselves. In short, women who identify as men quietly go about their business with less harmful impact on men or women. On the other hand, men who identify as women commit crimes at the same rate as men, are in jail for proportionally more sex offences than non-trans men and never stop demanding more and more access to everything including cervical smears and women’s health meet ups in libraries. So, trans identifying women don’t bother most of us in the slightest. It’s the men letting everyone down with their behaviour.