Active discussions

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

AIBU not to buy in about all of this net zero/environmentalism?

210 replies

ShanCran · 24/06/2025 23:33

Okay, so I understand the need to look after the planet and all that but just feel that the whole “net zero” agenda is being pushed too hard and too fast. Things like “clean air zones” in cities. Surely that’s just a money making exercise?

I recycle where I can, but not as religiously as most. I also travel about 20,000 miles per year in my (small) petrol car and in my 28 years on the planet have travelled approximately 175,000 air miles. Some will say that I am awful and totally unreasonable - but I suspect that many will agree that the whole concept of net zero is being pushed too hard and too fast.

After all, for all the environmentalist rhetoric that is preached by many politicians, the King, numerous celebrities and the likes - I don’t see any of them being principled enough to reduce their airmiles (often travelling by air for trivial things) or travel less generally. I doubt that the personal carbon emissions of many of such “celebrities” is far from net zero themselves.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
16
sleepwouldbenice · 26/06/2025 01:04

Ablondiebutagoody · 25/06/2025 07:26

Let's see how long it takes for you to make a reasoned argument. Net zero is a surefire way to grind our economy into the ground.

Show quote history

What a one dimensional answer. What will the cost of not addressing climate change be? Do you even have any concept of what it already costs?
Don't bother replying, I know the answer

Hotmoodle · 26/06/2025 01:01

sleepwouldbenice · 26/06/2025 00:54

You not caring says lots about you

Show quote history

And me caring about what a random stranger on the internet thinks about me, affects me how? 🤣 Ok Greta. Do whatever you need to do that makes you feel important. I’m sure recycling is definitely going to help.

Hotmoodle · 26/06/2025 00:57

SunnyOchreNewt · 26/06/2025 00:55

Nobody is talking about restoring the earth to what it was. They are simply trying to ensure the planet is a viable home for human beings. But yeah, don't bother to recycle because after all, why should you be arsed.

Show quote history

I‘m not arsed. That’s my whole point.

SunnyOchreNewt · 26/06/2025 00:55

Hotmoodle · 26/06/2025 00:28

I agree op. I don’t recycle and have no plans too. It’s far too late to change any of this now. I worked in a hospital and the amount of waste was ridiculous from our ward alone, never mind the 100s of other wards. Same thing when I worked in a university. We’ve fucked up the planet and we can never get back to what it was.

Nobody is talking about restoring the earth to what it was. They are simply trying to ensure the planet is a viable home for human beings. But yeah, don't bother to recycle because after all, why should you be arsed.

sleepwouldbenice · 26/06/2025 00:54

Hotmoodle · 26/06/2025 00:28

I agree op. I don’t recycle and have no plans too. It’s far too late to change any of this now. I worked in a hospital and the amount of waste was ridiculous from our ward alone, never mind the 100s of other wards. Same thing when I worked in a university. We’ve fucked up the planet and we can never get back to what it was.

You not caring says lots about you

sleepwouldbenice · 26/06/2025 00:53

LameBorzoi · 25/06/2025 22:49

There was a thread on here recently about why higher mathematics should not be routinely taught in high school. I think this thread is an excellent example of why it should be taught. People just aren't understanding the mathematics that explain these issues.

Agreed
and you can tell who watches GB news

Disneydatknee88 · 26/06/2025 00:38

I recycle, don't buy fast fashion and don't complain about the disgusting paper staws but the biggest impact is private jets, big corporations emitting polution. Its on a grand scale. Its not something going vegan and charity shopping is going to change.

Hotmoodle · 26/06/2025 00:37

LameBorzoi · 26/06/2025 00:33

It's this kind of pointless negativity that really is the biggest threat to a positive future.

We are making huge progress. It's not perfect, but it's not hopeless.

Show quote history

I don’t care and many people don’t either. What you going to do?

LameBorzoi · 26/06/2025 00:33

Hotmoodle · 26/06/2025 00:28

I agree op. I don’t recycle and have no plans too. It’s far too late to change any of this now. I worked in a hospital and the amount of waste was ridiculous from our ward alone, never mind the 100s of other wards. Same thing when I worked in a university. We’ve fucked up the planet and we can never get back to what it was.

It's this kind of pointless negativity that really is the biggest threat to a positive future.

We are making huge progress. It's not perfect, but it's not hopeless.

Hotmoodle · 26/06/2025 00:28

I agree op. I don’t recycle and have no plans too. It’s far too late to change any of this now. I worked in a hospital and the amount of waste was ridiculous from our ward alone, never mind the 100s of other wards. Same thing when I worked in a university. We’ve fucked up the planet and we can never get back to what it was.

DonnaBanana · 25/06/2025 23:29

I couldn’t give a rats aris about it. If I were dead and not contributing to any emissions at all, would the world be even 0.000001% better off? No. Anything I could possibly consume or do in my life will not make the slightest dent so fill your boots I say.

LameBorzoi · 25/06/2025 23:15

ThisOldThang · 25/06/2025 23:09

They don't show the same general trend. The scale on the 480 million year graph prevents it displaying the type of temperature cycles that we've seen since the collision of the North and South American continents.

The 480 million year graph completely lacks detail and is meaningless for the reasons I've already explained.

"Feel free ask me why the temperature change isn't exactly the same as it was in whatever other warming period you wish to compare it to when the full effects are seen. If we're still around to argue about it that is."

What a ridiculous statement. Humans currently thrive in Dubai and Alaska. A couple of degrees of warming isn't going to eradicate humans from the planet. It is this sort of nonsense that has resulted in the Net Zero lunacy.

Just how long do we have to wait for these Doomsday predictions to come true? At what point would you take stock and decide that maybe the theory isn't matching with reality and we can forget all about it? 20 years? 50 years? 100 years?

It's like the Jehovah's Witnesses repeatedly predicting the end of the world and then having to put the date back by 20 years.

Show quote history

Humans can thrive in extreme clomates, but a complex society of billions of people does not react well to sudden systemic changes.

The Syrian war is a result of human displacement caused by drought caused by climate change.

The bigger the climate changes we get, the more of that sort of stuff goes on.

ThisOldThang · 25/06/2025 23:09

MuckFusk · 25/06/2025 22:53

They show periods of warming and cooling, so yes, they do show the same general trend. The relevant fact is that the planet warms and it also cools. Nobody has said otherwise.

The full effects of CO2 on climate change are yet to be realized, as you have indicated you are aware. Feel free ask me why the temperature change isn't exactly the same as it was in whatever other warming period you wish to compare it to when the full effects are seen. If we're still around to argue about it that is.

I don't know that anybody has argued it's a "massive" driver of climate change, either. If it was as massive as you seem to think people are saying it is I tend to doubt we'd be alive. It is a driver and it's one we have some control over, so why wouldn't we?

Show quote history

They don't show the same general trend. The scale on the 480 million year graph prevents it displaying the type of temperature cycles that we've seen since the collision of the North and South American continents.

The 480 million year graph completely lacks detail and is meaningless for the reasons I've already explained.

"Feel free ask me why the temperature change isn't exactly the same as it was in whatever other warming period you wish to compare it to when the full effects are seen. If we're still around to argue about it that is."

What a ridiculous statement. Humans currently thrive in Dubai and Alaska. A couple of degrees of warming isn't going to eradicate humans from the planet. It is this sort of nonsense that has resulted in the Net Zero lunacy.

Just how long do we have to wait for these Doomsday predictions to come true? At what point would you take stock and decide that maybe the theory isn't matching with reality and we can forget all about it? 20 years? 50 years? 100 years?

It's like the Jehovah's Witnesses repeatedly predicting the end of the world and then having to put the date back by 20 years.

LameBorzoi · 25/06/2025 23:08

MuckFusk · 25/06/2025 23:03

I don't care about the sharpness of the curve shift in the context of this discussion. The earth warms and the earth cools. That's the trend. If you want to talk about a sharpness and dullness trend I can open a thread about reality TV.

If I could predict what is going to happen re; renewables then I'd probably be offered a Ted Talk. So the answer is I don't know.

Show quote history

You should care, because that graph of renewables uptake is a thing of beauty.

SunnyOchreNewt · 25/06/2025 23:06

The king isn't going to be around for long enough to reap the consequences. But in your 20s OP, you are. So it's in your interest to be more militant than most.

LameBorzoi · 25/06/2025 23:06

ThisOldThang · 25/06/2025 22:59

It's good that you've mentioned 1880.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1883_eruption_of_Krakatoa

"The eruption caused a volcanic winter.[24] In the year following the eruption, average Northern Hemisphere summer temperatures fell by 0.4 °C (0.72 °F)"

Bearing that event in mind, do you think it is a bit dishonest to measure the cumulative increase in temperature from a decade when global temperatures were artificially low due to a volcanic eruption?

It certainly makes for good headlines, but it seems a bit desperate when you actually look a bit closer.

That's the daftest statement yet. Volcanic winters last a few years at most, unless you are talking Siberian traps events.

It's a hypothesis that does not in any way fit the data.

AIBU not to buy in about all of this net zero/environmentalism?
MuckFusk · 25/06/2025 23:03

LameBorzoi · 25/06/2025 22:54

You are not understanding trends. Look at how sharply those curves shift. Do you really think that fossil fuel dominance will persist in a few years? Especially given how cheap and reliable renewables have become?

Show quote history

I don't care about the sharpness of the curve shift in the context of this discussion. The earth warms and the earth cools. That's the trend. If you want to talk about a sharpness and dullness trend I can open a thread about reality TV.

If I could predict what is going to happen re; renewables then I'd probably be offered a Ted Talk. So the answer is I don't know.

ThisOldThang · 25/06/2025 22:59

It's good that you've mentioned 1880.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1883_eruption_of_Krakatoa

"The eruption caused a volcanic winter.[24] In the year following the eruption, average Northern Hemisphere summer temperatures fell by 0.4 °C (0.72 °F)"

Bearing that event in mind, do you think it is a bit dishonest to measure the cumulative increase in temperature from a decade when global temperatures were artificially low due to a volcanic eruption?

It certainly makes for good headlines, but it seems a bit desperate when you actually look a bit closer.

Icanttakethisanymore · 25/06/2025 22:59

Clean air zones is not really about net zero, it’s about air quality in our cities. Air polluted with particulates from diesel vehicles and old petrol cars makes people unwell.

LameBorzoi · 25/06/2025 22:54

Ablondiebutagoody · 25/06/2025 14:07

That graph shows that the share produced from renewables is increasing not that the amount produced from fossil fuels is decreasing. It is in fact increasing, because energy consumption in those countries is massively increasing.

Show quote history

You are not understanding trends. Look at how sharply those curves shift. Do you really think that fossil fuel dominance will persist in a few years? Especially given how cheap and reliable renewables have become?

MuckFusk · 25/06/2025 22:53

ThisOldThang · 25/06/2025 22:38

They don't show the same trend. The planet was much hotter millions of years ago because the oceans could circulate freely at the equator.

Recent temperature tends have been oscillating between ice age (glacial) and non-ice age (interglacial). The trend is rapid warming followed by slow cooling. As per the graph I shared, our current temperature is around 10°F lower than the previous (completely natural) interglacial high. This temperature is still well, well within the bounds of normal climate variation. That's a fact. To claim otherwise is anti-science.

Will we see a sudden rise in temperature due to CO2? Maybe.

But if CO2 is such a massive driver for temperatures, and our CO2 levels are now 50% higher than at any point in the past 800k years (as per the chart above), why aren't we seeing a corresponding huge increase in temperature rather than tiny incremental increases that are still completely in line with the earth's natural climate variations?

Show quote history

They show periods of warming and cooling, so yes, they do show the same general trend. The relevant fact is that the planet warms and it also cools. Nobody has said otherwise.

The full effects of CO2 on climate change are yet to be realized, as you have indicated you are aware. Feel free ask me why the temperature change isn't exactly the same as it was in whatever other warming period you wish to compare it to when the full effects are seen. If we're still around to argue about it that is.

I don't know that anybody has argued it's a "massive" driver of climate change, either. If it was as massive as you seem to think people are saying it is I tend to doubt we'd be alive. It is a driver and it's one we have some control over, so why wouldn't we?

LameBorzoi · 25/06/2025 22:49

There was a thread on here recently about why higher mathematics should not be routinely taught in high school. I think this thread is an excellent example of why it should be taught. People just aren't understanding the mathematics that explain these issues.