AIBU not to buy in about all of this net zero/environmentalism?

Nope. I was referring to forced air systems for both heating and cooling, which is not the same as the ASHP unit itself. In those systems the heated or cooled air is blown from a fan through a network of ducts, not circulated by radiant heat. While it's possible to lower the temperature by circulating cool air through the pipes in a radiant system, it doesn't cool as well as forced air because there is no built in dehumidification, which is a big part of what makes hot weather so uncomfortable. It can also cause condensation, leading to mould growth. You can use a separate dehumidifier though and I would strongly suggest anyone with that sort of system do.

You appear to be referring to modern air-conditioning units. In the UK, ASHPs are connected to radiators and use a low flow temperature.

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=ashp

Yeah, I'm in Canada too. I got the super high efficiency one and it heats the whole house with no need for supplemental heat. Cost me a pretty penny but there was a rebate.
When you say people didn't put them in the right places I assume you're referring to the mini-split systems. You do have to locate the wall units wisely.

Yes, they are very popular where I am in Canada. There were a few blips when they first came out, mainly because people didn't always put them in the right places in their homes. But they are really pretty good now at putting in the right unit for the home and people I know who have them love them. Not just because of the costs but they like the way they heat and cool.

What information are you referring to?
Any central heating system will struggle under the conditions you're talking about. I said you can do it, not that it's a wise idea.
You insisted British people can't properly manage a central system, so I was saying they still do have an option to use one as badly as you described. I sure as hell wouldn't. I set the thermostat to between 19 and 21 year round and it keeps it there, even in the depths of winter. I have a programmable thermostat, but I never use that function. I just turn it down manually if I'm going to be gone for awhile.

Radiant heat from a boiler really isn't comparable to forced air heat. Radiant is superior heat IMO and pretty much anyone who works in heating and air conditioning will say so as well. The huge downside to it is that it doesn't give you the option of air conditioning. You have to add that on either with traditional ductwork or mini-split. That gets costly.

Also heat pumps are bulky and I believe they go outside?

I don't think that's accurate information. Heat pumps tend to use a much lower flow temperature and flow temperature is directly proportional to heat output (the difference between the room temperature and the radiator temperature is known as 'Delta T'). The higher the Delta T, the more effective/quicker the heating.

If you allow the room temperature to drop overnight (e.g. to 16°C), a heat pump will struggle to raise the temperature back up to 20°C. You need to set the heating to a fairly constant temperature, so that the radiators only need to replace the heat being lost from the house rather than the heat being lost + the heat required to raise the home's temperature.

https://www.heatgeek.com/should-your-heating-be-left-on-all-the-time-or-not/

Our home is occupied 24x7, so we run our gas system (modern boiler with Type 22 radiators and a maximum flow temperature of 60°C) at 19°C overnight, 20°C during the day and 21°C during the evenings. Even during very cold weather our radiators are just 'warm' as the boiler gently replaces the home's heat loss. They only become hot to the touch when increasing the temperature in the morning and evening. We've got a Tado smart thermostat that controls the boilers heat output, so I've mitigated that 'problem' by programming two gently temperature increases of 0.5°C rather than a sharp jump of 1°C.

That's similar to how a heat pump would operate most efficiently.

You could actually do that with a heat pump if you wanted. You can turn them on, off, up and down. But it wouldn't be necessary as they self-regulate and turn themselves off if no heat and air conditioning is needed. They don't run 24/7 and neither do other central heating systems that operate by thermostat. They only turn on when needed to reach your desired temperature.

People adapt to technology. The only objections to heat pumps I've seen were based on a misunderstanding of how they work or how effective they are.
As for financially, the usual market forces apply. The more common they are the more reasonably priced they become.

@ThisOldThang

"This is the problem with thsee self-righteousness sermons. As soon as you scratch the surface, it all turns out to be bollocks - but some people will believe anything."

Meanwhile renewable energy currently receives subsidies of £12 billion per year plus the cost of additional grid balancing of £2.5 to £4 billion per year (because the wind doesn't always blow or blows too much and the same for solar).This cost is placed directly on to consumers bills.

The fuel subsidy relief is for customers living in remote areas in Scotland whose fuel costs would astronomical otherwise as well as tax relief for energy intensive users of gas that would otherwise leave the UK - like we have recently seen with the steel industry. Again I can't see how this is a subsidy for oil and gas.

Using the same logic for oil and gas consumers using electricity from renewables only pay 5% VAT instead of 20%.

The CCS line in the table is for carbon capture and storage which I also can't see how this is a subsidy for oil and gas.

In short the eco zealots put out a bollocks made up figure with no substance or reality. And will then respond with a "whatabout the polar bears" when they are called out on their fake figures.

I don't think British people are mentally or financially ready for heat pumps.

British people still haven't adjusted to the idea of central heating - i.e. running it 24x7 to gently replace the home's heat loss. Most people run it full blast for a couple of hours in the morning and evening, which doesn't work with heat pumps.

Heating is seen as a begrudged necessity rather than a life enhancing essential.

They work fine, but that depends on the quality of the particular model of course, just like with any appliance.
You don't need engineers to install and service them either. A regular heating contractor can do it. I have one and I'm in an extremely cold climate. They have cold climate models now which can heat the home without any need for supplemental heat.

This. They’re everywhere in Spain now.

I did a bit of googling and I think this is the source of the £17.5 billion figure

It's a report by 'Global Justice' who I assume aren't exactly neutral...

https://www.globaljustice.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2025/05/FINAL-Who-Pays-Who-Profits-May.pdf

£6.9 billion is due to people not paying 20% VAT n their gas and electricity bills. I'm not sure how consumers not paying tax equates to a tax break for oil and gas producers, but hey. 🤷‍♀️

Only £2.7 billion is listed as tax reliefs for oil and gas producers. Without knowing what those are, I don't know we can really say if they're right or wrong.

This is the problem with thsee self-righteousness sermons. As soon as you scratch the surface, it all turns out to be bollocks - but some people will believe anything.

I’m not convinced those heat pumps are up to much and work properly and do we have enough trained engineers to deal with them

Couldn't care less about net zero. It's too expensive for the UK and will make no difference

Yes but if they hadn't implemented that policy, which was in place for 35 years, they estimate that the population would be 400 million higher than it is today.

As someone said up thread, a tanker can’t turn on a dime. We can’t force people to retrofit their homes when they have perfectly good heating systems already installed. But we can be ready to fit an effective system when their boiler comes to end of life.

This is important as the UK has a shortage of ASHP fitters so fitting them in new builds will expand this skill set and critically transfer learning to existing housing stock, improve technology and solutioning.

I think that's an excelllent thing, @applegingermint, and might well be a way forward - though it's very long term given the amount of older housing stock and isn't it said the "cliamte emergency" is supposed to be NOW?

Also agree, @Cnidarian, that the measures might help to balance out possible issues caused by middle east unrest, but we're still back with it being a long term solution
Better than doing nothing at all though, I guess ...

For many ordinary consumers they do.

The UK is about mandate heat pumps and solar panels for new builds. This will generally result in very low, perhaps no, utility bills for residents of these future homes. If it saves a modest £100pm (most likely more!) that is a far bigger saving than the small uplift (say £10k) in house price when equated to a monthly mortgage payment.

This is surely a good thing, don’t you think?

Yes I think you have a point here, I'm not hopeful renewables will reduce bills from where they are today, there is a lot of investment required in the grid, storage etc. But stack that against what would happen to oil prices if Iran close the state of Hormuz, or Russia took further steps to disrupt supplies I think that's a more reasoned argument for stabilising bill projections with renewable in the mix.

Yep. Subsidies that damage nature are globally estimated at $4-6 trillion a year. We have to change the model or risk systems collapse.

There is no economy without the environment. We rely entirely on natural processes to support the economy, it is how we get food, water, shelter, climate regulation, nutrients cycles, oxygen production. These are natural capital assets, but the way we define "the economy" doesn't reflect their value which allows for continued damage to the systems upon which the entire economic system relies, which will lead to collapse of it all. It is not moving too quickly, we have known this for decades and through institutional and market failures have ignored it. By 2050 based on current trends England will be 5 billion litres of water short A DAY. Conflicts are rising across the world many driven by access to natural resources. Wars drive up prices for the every day person. Environment and Economy are not a binary choice, it's appeared that way because there was enough "Environment" to go round and the costs weren't included in our economic models. That's just not the case any more, the only economy that can survive into the future is environmentally sustainable. It's that or Mad Max. Unfortunately many people seem to wat to choose Mad Max.

Surprised - tthough maybe I shouldn't be - to see the insistence that renewables will lead to lower bills, when there'll still need to be a power supply system and the operators of that will doubtless gouge the consumers just as the oil and gas companies do

And some of us are old enough to remember the claims that the finding of North Sea gas would result in the product being so cheap that there'd be no point in billing consumers at all ...

Honestly, they are common knowledge, and a search will quickly provide reliable information. You are being disingenuous.

This explains it: https://www.upliftuk.org/post/the-way-the-uk-taxes-oil-companies-needs-to-change