To say that the "alternative medicine" and conspiracy theorists about Western medicine are dangerous to society?

How do you know? I did the Zoe plan where I tracked my blood sugar through a number of different experiments, and my blood sugar responded differently when I had apple cider vinegar before a meal. Now I don’t care enough to have it consistently to lose weight (and I don’t know if would have that effect, but it’s certainly possible), but going for a walk after eating has changed how I metabolise sugar and the rate I put on weight - so I don’t think you’re being entirely fair.

I agree on the medicine point though.

@mathanxiety

I see many posts here on food/ daily diet topics where people use the word 'chemicals' in terror, as if these things are all alien and universally toxic. I roll my eyes. It's easy to spot the poorly educated.

It's so irritating this isn't it. I've had so many hippie friends over the years up in arms about "chemicals" in food/medicine. Anyone with the most rudimentary scientific education should understand that there are "chemicals" in every single element of the physical world. Including the herbal remedies/homeopathy and all the other alternative quackery.

I find it genuinely frightening that people finish school in a country which supposed mandates some scientific education up to GCSE and can't understand this.

Honestly, I'm not sure how much you two are actually disagreeing.

The placebo, itself, has no active properties (e.g. nothing that causes any physical effect) - which is what I understood the PP to be saying.

I think thats different from whether the placebo effect can (as it does) result in measurable physical improvement - which (largely*) is of psychological origin.

(*There's also a subconscious element, which doesn't fall within "psychological" in the clinical sense if we want to quibble but, either way, I still think you're either misunderstanding the PP or engaging in extreme hairsplitting).

Same thing as to what? The post was about how alternative medicine is dangerous to western society. Massage therapy isn’t a western tradition but it’s used within healthcare.

@noworklifebalance apologies I think i misread your post. Agreed placebo is likely working not because they themselves work ie have medicinal properties but due to physiological impact in which case agreed.

Repeated studies have shown that test subjects, even when they know they are on placebos have better health outcomes than those with nothing. Really interesting harvard study about it. So even if herbs are simply placebos, they can still have a positive impact on recovery. Of course it shoudnt replace modern medicine at all but, for example, I enjoyed my raspberry leaf tea in the lead up to labour. It did basically nothing but if it helps me feel I'm doing something and a good mentality is important too.

Thalidomide was used 60 years ago and because of it we now have lots of regulations in place to avoid this happening again.
Thalidomide is now being used again (along with two other similar drugs) for myeloma with very strict precautions in places - most patients are over 50 and the occasional younger female patients are only given a small amount of tablets after a negative pregnancy test and a lot of explanation - the damage occurs at 8-10 weeks of pregnancy and because of the restrictions there have been no reports of babies being born with the limb problems

Myself and my son have had our childhood vaccinations. There were no ifs or buts for him as he almost died at less than a day old and spent time in nicu for it. However, i have only had one covid jab and my son has had none.

I also use prescription medication for my diabetes, adhd etc and he is on stuff for sleep and asthma but I also fall in the middle with regards to natural medicine and pharma stuff

Yes, there a lot of “mild” conditions that are helped by various herbal/alternative treatments. Ginger, mint, turmeric etc - all used safely in cooking so no one is going have serious side effects by taking them for relatively minor ailments. Likewise using a hot water bottle for back pain, ice pack to reduce swelling.
Taking herbal medicines from a random shop or self styled expert is not safe and is not going to help the actual disease process, although psychologically you may feel your symptoms have improved.
I don’t judge anyone who desperately seeks out treatments especially when more conventional ones have failed them.

My son was damaged by a “safe” paediatric drug so I’m wary about how safe we’re told drugs are.

I’m also aware that history is littered with drugs and products we were assured were safe but turned out to be really dangerous, leaving trails of destruction and damaged people. At the same time those making millions out of the products were busy covering it up.

There are several drugs known to be causing severe side effects with very little benefits or extended life, and I’m certain that in 20/30+ years there’ll be films about them and the fat cat pharmaceutical companies that made billions.

It’s no wonder many don’t trust them, and tbh I’m amazed so many fully trust pharmaceutical companies and their known manipulative marketing.

That said I’m not anti western medicine, we are all vaccinated.

For mental health though alternative treatments and therapies seem to be far more effective than anything the NHS can offer.

I know a few people who stay away from western medicine , one family because of a genetic disorder that means they tend to have weird side affects to drugs, so they live very naturally and seem healthy on it. Others distrust what we’re told, and at the end of the day they are adults and it’s up to them.

That’s not really the same thing though. There are good reasons why massage would relieve pain and anxiety. It would be an issue if people were claiming it could cure the cancer.

Several years ago I knew a woman who had bowel cancer, detected relatively early, and she decided to treat it "naturally". She paid some charlatan naturalist an absolute fortune to "treat" her over six months or so, during which time her cancer inevitably progressed rapidly. Eventually she did go back to the doctor and ask for chemo, but it was too late - she was stage 4 by then and died a couple of months later. That witch doctor should be in prison for manslaughter if not murder.

Edited for weird typo.

Yeah the important bit is she got the functional bit of her treatment. This is fairly common in people who claim their cancer was cured by x, y or z. They tend to forget to mention that bit so their followers tend to not have the conventional treatment and just the rubbish.

Not really. Because most people realise they’re fruitcakes.

Refusing childhood vaccines is the worst. This place used to be full of terrible scaremongering, foolish anti-vaxxers.

Many were just idiots. But one or two were, incredibly, apparently otherwise quite intelligent.

Lord knows how this nonsense takes hold. But it needs stamping on.

Nurses told my grandad to drink hot water and ginger after his chemo to treat his nausea, it worked. Whilst I agree with you op there are some natural products that are used within western medicine. DoI think drinking ginger tea is going to cure cancer, no, but it does help deal with symptoms of sickness.

You can’t be the thought police. People are allowed to have alternative thoughts and to voice them if they wish. What people choose to believe and take onboard is up to them.

Reading skills is not a strong point clearly for you but do carry on

My dad's PSA came down whilst I had him on herbal tea. Could've been complete coincidence, but it was unusual for his disease progression at the time. He wasn't on any other treatment only palliative pain meds. Unfortunately he didn't take it for long as he wasn't a big believed in alternative meds either.

Massage therapy is often used with cancer patients and palliative care to ease anxiety and pain.

Refusing vaccines or treatment and partaking complimentary therapies are not the same thing.

You should have a chamomile tea and calm right down.

I believe there is a place for alternative/complementary medicine alongside conventional medicine. And for those who think its a placebo, so what? If it make the person feel 'better' then its no different to my ex mil who 'felt better the instant i had the prescription in my hand' her words not mine.
My son (27) has recently been effectively treated using a combination of herbs and acupuncture for a gut issue that conventional medicine could not treat- told it was IBS and he should learn to live with feeling exhausted and ill all the time with no energy to even go for a walk. The practitioner (a qualified GP who trained in Chinese medicine 20 years ago) treated him with acupuncture (7 sessions) and three months of herbs and he's now eating for England (no dietary restrictions) and running 20 miles a week.

Whilst I don’t believe in people thinking they can cure themselves of cancer or vaccines are causing autism there are many natural products that are used in western medicine. Example I give before was honey, it’s used in many GP practices and NHS wards to treat certain wounds. Honey and lemon have been proven to help soothe sore throats and many cold and flu medicines use these flavours and extracts of them. In certain wounds they also use maggots to eat the dead flesh. So there are some natural products that can be used and are used in western medicine.