Gender swap situation

Always focus on the behaviour not the identity. It's more important.

@Tandora

Feeling like you are not quite the same as other people of your sex was, for women especially, experienced and understood differently at very different times.

In 1425, people believed “not feeling like a woman” was evidence of religious vocation — you were probably called to be a spiritual recluse or a nun.

In 1525, you might be likely to experience it as a medical issue: an excess of humours, maybe; or a bodily distemper. If your father was learned and wanted to teach you Latin, however, it might be evidence of your natural attunement to the humanist ideals of the new scholarship.

In 1625, if you didn’t feel like a woman and you moved in wealthy and courtly Protestant circles, you might be thought of as an unusually pious woman with a scholarly vocation; if you were unlucky and poor, people believed you were probably a witch.

In 1725, if you were unlucky, people might believe you had been possessed by a demon. If you were lucky and came from a wealthy court family, you might instead become a playwright or a poet.

In 1825, if you didn’t “feel like a woman” you would likely be thought of as mad; or, if you were rich and bohemian, you had an artistic sensibility.

In 1925, people believed that feeling “not like a woman” was the cause of homosexuality.

In 2025, people believe it makes you “trans”.

All of these are ways in which people fit their own “feelings” and experiences into the beliefs that are current at the time. But, importantly, they are all still belief systems, or ideologies, or cultural trends.

How will people interpret their feelings of disconnection or difference in 2125? One thing’s for sure: it won’t look the same as the current idea of “trans”, if one goes by historical precedent.

(Note that male ideas of sex and sexuality all across these time periods tended to be always much more about sex, particularly same-sex desire, sexual activity and sexual fetishes. Not until quite recently is there much evidence of men claiming they really are women — and, tellingly, this starts to appear roughly concurrently with women starting to achieve some degree of legal and financial rights. There was not much evidence at all that men liked the idea that they might really be women during the periods when women had no vote, little control over their lives, and little financial autonomy. Funny, that.)

to drag us slightly back on topic: it is clear that despite clarity given by the SC ruling, and more and more companies (and schools) rolling back mixed sex toilets and spaces to single sex, we are still going to be faced with young people declaring a trans identity.

So what is key is how we handle this on 2 completely different levels. On a personal level i think they should be dealt with sympathetically, compasionately and with empathy. But also firmly, so that while their wishes (in some respects) will be followed, there are other red lines that will not be bent or broken. And that they also need to display sympathy and understanding with their friends and classmates who may have greater or fewer issues around names, pronouns etc etc.

But on a general level it must be made clear that we have single sex spaces, etc, and that those boundaries are not to be trampled on. Film yourself using the opposite sex facilities? expect a visit from the plod. Employment law in particular is very clear, and that must be made clear and kept in mind.

The genie is not going back in the bottle. Unfortunately.

No. You completely fabricated things that weren't being said. And you know you did.

Nothing being made up at all. Simply commenting on how the pp was coming across imo.

If you have to resort to swiping at pps who weren't actually talking to you in the first place, I'd say you don't have much of a point yourself.

Of course it's not. But that isn't the topic under discussion, so that's quite the irrelevant leap you've made there.

Nothing wrong with the gender bending properties of mascara, eye liner, long hair or nail varnish.

I'm old enough to remember when men were able to gender bend without claiming to be women or lesbians and without transgressing reasonable boundaries or believing that wearing makeup made them actual women.

I miss those days.

It’s not right wing to understand that a larger percentage of the world’s population is more concerned about secure access to clean water, adequate food and shelter, sanitation and physical safety than the magical genderbending properties of mascara.

Ron has it tough? 🤔 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

WTF??

Ron is a self absorbed, attention seeking, drama lama teenager who will quickly lose all her friends if she carries on with this ridiculous nonsense. What on earth are her parents doing about it?

She’ll be telling everyone she identifies as a cat next week. 🤦🏻‍♀️🤷🏻‍♀️

I’d be telling the DD to drop the friendship and focus on her studies for now.

Well I would think that fetishising Muslim and other religious minority women would be universally condemned. Especially by the very people who call women who want to ensure that women retain rights 'right wing bigots'.

Seems anything goes though as long as you utter the magic words 'i am trans'!

I therefore stand corrected.

Ah I see what you mean.

This is all about control. Children feeling like they don’t have enough control and alighting on something that seems to give it to them, whatever the cost to themselves or others. It used to be anorexia and now it’s transgenderism. Both very harmful, but the difference with transgenderism is that misguided, greedy or grooming adults are actually facilitating and encouraging the harm.

Whatever your view on gender, the fact that “Sally” is clearly wanting to assert control over their friend group and is punishing those who don’t give it to her, is not a good sign. It could be a bit difficult for your daughter for a while, and she doesn’t deserve that, but I suspect that sooner or later some or all of the friend group is going to get very tired of “Sally”’s controlling behaviour.

Some sure do, yes. What makes you think they wouldn't?

The poster didn't say anything like that. If you have to make up stuff for your point, you don't have a point.

Why do you think National Serice is needed for these usually very mentally unwell children and young people? `Surprised to see you mention it.

They need compassion and therapeutic support to come to terms with the reality of their sexed bodies - and ideally being surrounded by trusted adults safeguarding them from bad faith adults pushing the "born in the wrong body" narrative.

And I’m guessing a stint of national service would knock the corners off these snowflakes, eh? 🙄

Honestly, tell us you read the Daily Mail without telling us you read the Daily Mail.

Completely agree that this is serious harm. The psychological damage done to little children when adults pretend they're the opposite sex - as written by a clinical psychologist:
https://www.transgendertrend.com/childhood-social-transition/

Are you aware that there are long term consequences to affirming a child’s belief that they are really the opposite sex? Consequences of serious harm to health and fertility (not to mention mental health which has been found to get worse after medical ‘transition).

Why would you advocate for OP to enable harming a child??

See my post upthread. I think it was actually Helen Joyce’s explanation.

So trans is a verb? In this explanation did they enlighten you as to what actions are associated with this word?

I'm feeling sad for Sally-Ron and her parents. With a therapist encouraging this. She'll have the best years of her life ruined by an obsession and angst with gender when she should be having fun. She'll have a future of medication and surgeries. If she goes through with it she'll go into menopause 30 years too soon. She'll probably not have a sex life or find it easy to meet an intimate partner. She'll not be able to have a child or breastfeed. She may die early as testosterone is a poison to women. She'll never be male. Her parents will never have grandchildren. It's the end of the line.

I disagree that “most people have a gender identity”. The majority of the world’s population has never given a moment’s thought to gender identity. It’s mainly a preoccupation of overprivileged young people who want to feel special, and “neurospicy” and “gluten intolerant” have been overdone.

So have you worked out a failsafe way of telling which man is not going to harm you?

Do share, it could save a lot of women being hurt. Think of all the rapes you could prevent. You could be up for a Nobel prize!!

There's no need for you to have an opinion about the veracity of someone else's condition. You are not their doctor, you are not a scientist.

I’m afraid we do when it involves boys (or 60 yr old men) in teenage girls changing rooms or young autistic or lesbian girls being set on a pathway which starts with a change in name and ‘pronouns’ and in many cases progress into taking testosterone and removing their breasts. Keeping children safe is everyone’s business.

We also have an interest in those men that claim this condition and therefore gain access to a world of women they could have only dreamed of. Especially as so many of them get so furious when we say no.

Homosexuality doesn’t require me or anyone else to deny reality. Homosexuality doesn’t require me or anyone else to change the meanings of words to pander to someone else’s denials of reality.

Homosexuality has nothing in common with trans. Stop appropriating it.