Gender swap situation

That seems to be unnecessarily aggressive for an online CHAT forum.

@Tandora And are you really saying that my concerns about my 13-year-old daughter, who’s never seen an adult male penis, having to change at school or Guide camp or at the swimming pool with a man in the room, is “phobia and prejudice”?

Think about it carefully, now; because you really need to stand by your answer.

Yes a perfect demonstration of your misunderstanding, phobia and prejudice.
By the way not all trans women have penises.

Of course she can. Definitely. And if there were other options, that would 100% be my take on it. But as the OP has said, it's a small school. She'll likely end up without a friendship group.

I’m not afraid of trans people: I just think that the idea that they “really are” or can become the opposite sex is metaphysical nonsense, and they remain the sex they always have been.

And so, I don’t want a man in a changing room with my young daughter, no matter whether he’s wearing a dress and thinks he’s a woman — or not. I also don’t want a man on a medical ward with my mum, or doing my smear test, or being in the sleeping quarters of my daughter’s school trip away, or whatever (name your single sex space or service of choice) — whether he’s wearing a dress and really truly believes his penis is a “female penis”, or not. I’m not “misunderstanding” him: I don’t care about understanding him or not. I just don’t want him and his male body there, thanks very much. HTH!

By “women” you mean a subset of women with certain ideas about gender, sex and transness.

Yes I’ve heard their concerns, they are based in an unjustified fear (/phobia) , prejudice and misunderstanding of others.

You answered that perfectly.
You don’t understand how this affects ALL women, especially those who have been through trauma. Slow hand clap for your lack of kindness

By “women” you mean a subset of women with certain ideas about gender, sex and transness.

Yes I’ve heard their concerns, they are based in an unjustified fear (/phobia) , prejudice and misunderstanding of others.

If you don’t think this is possible why are you working so bloody hard to fight/ prevent it 😂😂😂.

I think the lady doth protest too much.

Are you able to define how a man “lives as a woman”?

Just a sentence will do?

Have you listened to women’s concerns especially but not limited to the safe guarding of children?

I don't consider my posts on here to have been inconsistent in terms of context, nor lacking in logic, and as for the quote marks thing you're being disingenuous. I suspect your definition of logic is anything you personally agree with. Bye now.

Oh my. 😂😂😂 Did you hurt yourself when you landed after that leap?

Show me where I said anything about the number of sexes or whether anyone can change sex. You won't be able to, because I have said precisely nothing about that.🙄And I am not trans myself, nor have I ever experienced gender dysphoria, I just happen to be capable of accepting that different people have different experiences. Glad we got that cleared up.

This thread started off as being about gender identity, not whether there are more than two sexes, and personally it irks the crap out of me when people hijack the more troublesome aspects of the gender debate as an excuse to be intolerant about anyone who struggles with their gender identity on any level. My posts were not attempts to get into the wider gender debate - there's a whole bloody forum on which to discuss that.

What irks me about this thread is, yes, the absolutely breathtaking blind arrogance, by which I meant nothing relating to sexes, spaces, safeguarding, or any of that. Those are separate, wider debates imo, which also need to be had. 'Blind arrogance' was specifically a reference to pps baying that there's no such thing as deadnaming, no such thing as gender dysphoria, no such thing as living as a member of the opposite sex, 'correcting' pps' wording, the placing of quote marks around terms that are in the actual dictionary ffs, the overall trend on this thread to state opinions as hard facts, and of course let's not forget the the oh-so-edgy 'hides head in hands' emoji repeatedly being used to invalidate opposing perspectives (which imo says something completely different about that particular poster than they presumably think it does, but let's not get sidetracked here.)

What I am saying is that some people on this thread seem pathologically incapable of grasping that they cannot simply browbeat others into agreeing with them. And that merely because they believe specific things around gender (as opposed to sex), it doesn't make them right. And that, nothing more, is what I meant by blind arrogance. HTH.

Cult think. That's given me my best laugh of the day so far. 😂

Everything you’ve posted here is part of the “cult” discourse @ruethewhirl

Example:
anyone who struggles with their gender identity

Imaging going back even just twenty years and saying that. It’s such a contemporary thing to say - the rhetoric of “struggle”, which then was reserved for physical illnesses like cancer - and the idea of “struggling with gender identity” at all. Gender was thought of as external social behaviour - so someone might “struggle” with gender roles, but not really with their own “identity”! And why struggle? Lots of people in the twentieth century weren’t keen on how gender roles were, or the fact of them at all, and they just wore their trousers or studied Engineering or played with Meccano and nobody thought they were “struggling”.

Plenty, in fact almost all, of the rather conventionally “feminine” women also didn’t much like the gender roles they were offered, and wanted jobs and equal pay and not to be sexually harassed, and they weren’t “struggling” with “gender identity” either: they were trying to overthrow sexism, which is what it was quaintly called at the time.

Finally, though, and you’ve rather hoist yourself on your own petard here: we all know that the whole point about “gender identity” in contemporary gender discourse is its relationship to sex. People who are trans are not “struggling with their gender identity”. They’re struggling with their sex - and precisely with their “gender identity” (so-called) not fitting their sex. Otherwise, why would they be struggling? If gender identity is an internal sense of “gender”, it can be whatever people want it to be. It’s the inconvenient sexed body aspect that is the struggle, as we’re constantly being told — the hurt feeling and dysphoria are all about not being the “right” sex/in the “right” body.

Just another example of the daft snits and snares gender ideology gets itself into. It’s all incoherent and inconsistent. Gender and sex are completely different except when they aren’t. Gender is socially constructed, oh no it’s not it’s an innate feeling, oh it’s not it’s a magical something else. People know instinctively who they are, and what gender they are, except they also don’t, and it’s a mental illness, except no it’s not, it’s gender dysphoria, which is a mental illness except it’s not a mental illness, no it’s just their body doesn’t match who they know they are, no it’s not it’s the gendered soul, and so on and so forth.

It’s exhausting. And philosophically and practically incoherent and logically contradictory. That’s why we say, as upthread here - that it’s just not true. And none of it can even all be true at the same time even if you’re sympathetic to the whole business. The genderist posters on this thread can’t even agree on what gender and sex are, or what is an “identity”.

How is pointing out the inconsistencies in your own posts not “seeing any perspectives other than my own”? I’m engaging with your own stated perspective.

If you can’t respond to logical argument, I agree, don’t waste your time trying to.

You know as well as I do there's sometimes more to people putting things in quotes than that. But your other post has shown that you have zero openness to seeing any perspectives other than your own (and as for the accusation of cultism, I can't even), so I'm not wasting any further keystrokes arguing with you. Have a nice day.

Oh and @ruethewhirl, using quotation marks around words and phrases is normally commonly done when quoting others, even when the words are in fact, “in the dictionary”!

That’s why I use them. I’m quoting other posters (you, amongst them). That’s why the quotation marks are there. Around the words. That are from the dictionary. Hope that helps.

And why is engaging in a complicated pretendy fantasy which involves becoming a medical patient with complex needs and negotiating difficult social relationships and legal structures which keep constantly reminding you that it all is really only a pretendy fantasy, any better for “the person” than just accepting that you’re not a woman?

Why don’t you ask this of a trans person in the real work. , with genuine curiosity ., and listen, really listen to their response. You might want to phrase the question in a less presumptuous and judgy way of course- but ask the question all the same. Listen to the answer. Hear what they have to say. You might learn something new.

And why is engaging in a complicated pretendy fantasy which involves becoming a medical patient with complex needs and negotiating difficult social relationships and legal structures which keep constantly reminding you that it all is really only a pretendy fantasy, any better for “the person” than just accepting that you’re not a woman?

Why don’t you ask this of a trans person in the real work. , with genuine curiosity ., and listen, really listen to their response. You might want to phrase the question in a less presumptuous and judgy way of course- but ask the question all the same. Listen to the answer. Hear what they have to say. You might learn something new.