Family basically falling apart

This sounds a tough situation and it’s particularly hard to be parenting solo. From what I’ve seen of some of my DD’s friends, a fair few girls (11 yrs) behave quite rudely to their parents in quite an extreme way and I don’t know if it’s a thing they get from social media or something. But I also wonder if there is something going on with your 14 yr old that she’s finding hard and it’s coming out with all this negative behaviour. Are there any other family members around to help maybe? Who else is she close to? What do the school say about her behaviour? Good luck

Your replies are infuriating OP. You’ve created this situation. Do something about it or don’t, but you’re wasting everyone’s time.

And it’s so bloody odd because most have unlimited data anyway

You sound pretty exhausted OP, think it’s really important you try and take a step back so you can put some perspective on this whole thing, you’re not as helpless as you might feel at the moment and slipping into the mode of thinking it’s all beyond your control isn’t going to do anyone any favours and is a bit of a cop out tbh, sorry that’s harsh but you’ll pay for it more and more if you don’t get your confidence up and take charge here

The mumsnet answer to every teenage problem is to turn the WiFi off but that is not going to solve the negative relationships in your family. I agree with others saying you need to spend time with your daughters separately. You also need to find out why your youngest is so unhappy and mean. It will be something. What is her school/social/academic life like? When adults are unhappy at work they often take it out on their families. Teenagers are the same but they often add an extra layer of secrecy.

Do you have any idea why the 14 year old is so angry… was it something that changed suddenly or related to the split?

Not that it excuses her behaviour at all, but could there be something going on with her that is causing the anger/lashing out at those closest?

obviously you need to support the 17yo and have boundaries about how they behave around each other but it may not be something the 14 year old can turn around with discipline alone if there’s an underlying issue

I think maybe your relationships are too emeshed? Your younger daughter is showing very challenging behaviour which must be difficult to live with but it’s best to try and separate her behaviour from the feeling of the whole family, it’s normal for siblings to not get along but it doesn’t mean your family is falling apart.
can you spend time with them separately?
seems like maybe you’re giving your youngest too much power to dictate the tone in the house. I’d also speak with your oldest about how to separate someone else’s words from how you can choose to feel, as in to recognise that another persons behaviour is their own responsibility and issue and huh done have to take it all in.
your youngest sounds super angry and frustrated if she’s lashing out, maybe try and work through this with her?
this isn’t a post to try and minimise how difficult it is at home for you right now rather some sharing of things I didn’t know about myself and how I interacted with family until I worked through some stuff in therapy x

her friends change year to year

that is not normal Op and not a sign of popularity

You sound incredibly passive! Teenagers are hard work, and you don’t seem to be putting any work in at all - she clearly has no respect for you and no enforceable boundaries. You are her parent not her friend, take control!

When that happens, I would tell the 14yo to stop picking on her sister and look at her disapprovingly.

OP, you're being very tame and ineffectual with your 14yo.

You need to toughen up and find your anger with her and give her real consequences.

So?

No one is enjoying it anyway! Not you, not the 14 year old and not the 17 year old. What a fucking waste of £50.

You are enabling your 14 yo to be a thief, a bully & generally not a nice person.
Why should she get to go for days out when her behaviour is awful most of the time?
As others have said, locks on the doors & if she does still steal anything then do exactly as you would if anyone else stole from your home - report to the police = consequences.

What is she stealing for / to fund?

Be consistent, exclude her from the nice things you do with your eldest until she gets the message & adjusts her behaviour. I doubt a 14yo is particularly bothered about going out for lunch.

They don’t have to like each other & get on, but they do have to live together until your eldest can move out.

Have you asked for help from external agencies?

That is not parenting, sorry.
Ask at your local library if there are any parenting classes being run. You sound out of your depth at the moment, but clearly want things to improve.
Good luck.

Umm change the password so she can’t! And cancel her data plan! Calls only.

If she swears at you, add another week without wifi or data and so on. 14 year olds are horrible but there needs to be consequences that she can’t just override.

If you have the funds, I'd be inclined to go talk to a family therapist because in family systems one child can often be designated the "trouble maker" and then they'll live up to it. It's all unconcious stuff and not my area of expertise but it might help you to see it differently which might change the dynamic?

The 14 year old sounds to be in some sort of pain. Maybe find out what is going on for her at school or what she feels about her dad moving out? One on one time with each of them without discussing the other, just focusing on them would help your relationship with both of them. I'm not sure what you can do about your valuable stuff whilst you're out with the 17 year old - maybe put it in the attic or something, somewhere where the 14 year old won't look?

Lastly, I recently attended a session led by a guy who runs a charity called Connected Families - he talked about handling teenagers and even though my children were grown up by then I was struck by the technique he used in getting them to understand the consquences of their own actions rather than just punish them. He'd worked with all kinds of tricky teenagers - please know that your 14 year old is certainly not beyond helping. He mentioned a website with free resources on it.

This is a difficult situation and you're handling it on your own and you don't say what else you've got going on but give yourself a pat on the back as you're facing it and that takes guts. I wish you well with this.

If the dad doesn't live with them then could they go to see him individually and you take the other one out whilst one is with their dad.

Having said that, you absolutely CAN leave the 14 year old at home whilst you go for lunch with the 17 year old. You need to raise both children to be independant adults, it's your job!

Do you have teens @NeedToChangeName ?

because what would likely happen if op followed your suggestions…

Better to focus on natural consequences eg you were rude this morning and your sister was upset, so I think it's best you don't come out shopping with us this afternoon.

”big fu@king deal… I get the house to myself!”

Or, last holiday wasn't pleasant for me because of your shouting so I think we won't go away this autumn

”last holiday was shit anyway, I want to see my friends over half term anyway”

Your 14 year old swears at you?

Never understood how it comes to pass that parents raise children to ever cross that line. How passive and unaware of future consequences you must be to have that happen. Once that line is crossed, it’s too late for anything else.

Oh for goodness sake. Take the router away. Lock it in the car boot or something and then confiscate her phone.

My daughter’s neurodivergence was picked up by high school. Certainly sounds like PDA could be a factor (by the fact that punishment makes stuff worse rather than better. Are there other signs?

They may grow closer as adults tbf the 14 year old is at a pretty heinous age. My dds were best friends when they were little. Then eldest dd hated her younger sister from about 11 years old. They are 23/25 now and have gradually improved over the years and are fairly close now. They see each other a couple times a month, sometimes with me sometimes not. And message ech other most days

It sounds like you’re not giving the 14 year old enough incentive to change her ways. If she’s not motivated by feeling bad about treating people unkindly in the first place, telling her be kind isn’t suddenly going to motivate her. Your job as the parent is to put in big enough consequences that she’s motivated to change, as well as to keep reminding her of the emotional impact she has on others. If she’s mean to her sister remove her phone for the following day. I’m sure that would have her promptly considering her behaviour.

I have heard from other parents I am friends with saying that the 14yo is mean.

come again

so does this mean your 14 year old is bullying others too?

Sounds like me and my younger sister. She was/is an absolute cow and for one reason or another nobody did anything about it.

I moved out at 17 and we didn’t speak to each other at all for about 10 years. We still only speak when we absolutely have to now.

You need to be firm with the 14 year old. I found loss of phone worked well. Id alway give a warning first but if ignored I’d do say 2 hours for rudeness and if she reacted rudely I’d add a hour on. She soon learnt to accept the first consequence!
id spend quality time with both of them separately for now so lunch /cinema /shopping etc but 1:1. Don’t encourage them to spend time together. If they want to let it happen organically. Once you have 14 year olds begaviour better managed look at doing a week away as a family but other than the yearly holiday/christmas /special occasions let them be seperate.