AIBU The global fertility crisis is the biggest crisis humanity has ever faced?

Tbh the end of humans doesn't mean the end of the planet, quite the contrary. We're a parasite on Earth, all other beings will benefit from us being gone 🌱🌿🌳🌴

Sure but, as I imagine you'd acknowledge, thats a selfish position, and you probably couldn't reasonably complain is younger generations acted with similar self interest and withdrew all support for retirees.

(Not that thats going to happen given voting demographics...).

I look at that and think phew!

All economies are built on the assumption of more workers than dependents. For the first time in human history this won’t be the case & we aren’t prepared for it.

We absolutely need to move away from population being needed to feed a Ponzi scheme for workers providing for the age above. It means population has to increase and increase and increase with absolutely no ability to step back and say we can’t sustain this!

the world is overpopulated. It managed just fine 200 years ago. If the population shrank to that level again in 100 years then everyone will be happier. More resources, more space per person and better for the environment.

eventually if things get better and people are happier, my money is on they will start having more babies. At the moment people don’t feel inclined to have lots of kids as they know they need to provide for each one and 2 is probably the most the majority can provide for comfortably.

No. We are, as a species, massively overpopulated. I am child free by choice and a net contributor by a very long way. My retirement and any needs I have as I age are already fully funded by me and I haven’t retired yet. I can pay all the tax in the world but I cannot change other peoples choices.

Has the fact the planet is being ravaged by war, genocide and climate change completely bypassed you?

@Valeriekat You say what do you owe us (our our children/grandchildren actually)

What do we owe you? What have you done for society?

Why on earth should you not pay for the care you receive as you get older. It is entirely predictable that getting older means needing help. Why did you not plan for this? Have you downsized and made sensible decisions to minimise the help you need? If not, why not?

Why should you not use your own resources first before taking other peoples?

The reason most countries need population to keep increasing is to fund the Ponzi scheme that is defined benefits pension; In the UK, the absolute number of earning and taxpaying population needs to keep increasing to fund the benefits budget

I don't know we 'need' to continue, necessarily? Like I don't think it's some crying shame that there's the potential that we die off, as a species. It's not a concern for me because I don't see the continuance of the human race as something particularly necessary. Of course, I don't have children of my own (and don't want them - another one contributing to the stats, soz) so the survival or quality of life of my lineage isn't something I'm considering in a potential dramatically ageing and shrinking population - maybe it's different for those that do, but I see no reason to take action to ensure humanity keeps going.

It might prove a useful tool to mitigate some of the effects but I think it'd be reckless to bank on it (particularly as a way of justifying an ongoing refusal to make sacrificies now).

Why does it matter if there’s none of us left through people’s choice? Not that that’s likely to happen. The demographic problem with a smaller working population supporting a large elderly population is a real problem, and is at the forefront of many politicians minds. It’s part of what is driving things like the increase in state pension age, and the issue will get worse before it starts to get better

Planet Earth still matters, and will have a better chance to thrive, when there's none of "us" left.

Yes I agree.
I remember seeing some passengers interviewed on a bus route that had recently been reinstated with a Polish driver saying they'd rather do without the bus than have immigration.

@Womblingmerrily

As a society we need to protect our young people and provide them with a life worth living, jobs worth doing and a reason to have their own children.
At the moment we are asking them to bear a massive burden of paying for non working people to have a better standard of living than them.

Nail on the head. We need to start offering the young something to work towards. At the moment, our young workforce is being shafted from all directions. That's why so many have either "opted out" to a life of unemployment, or working in the black economy to avoid taxes etc., or emigrating. Those who are likely to get a decent inheritance will be OK in the end, though they'll have to wait decades for it - in the meantime, they may too wonder why they bother working. Those without inheritances on the way will feel the whole thing is just pointless as they'll never be able to own a home, unless they're higher earners - certainly not a chance on minimum wage or even average wages really if all their wages are going on rents and other living costs.

We are not really killing the planet, just making it inhospitable to our species.
Once our sad little parasitic existence has gone, the planet will do something else.
Every Homo has been about for, at best, 8m years.
The simple, lovely frog is 30 times older.
Good fucking riddance to us.

I agree with pp AI and robots will start to fill the gap anyway.

And deforestation releasing more viruses causing more pandemics.
And fungal infections (an overlooked one, very Last of Us)
And madmen ruling 80% of nations...
But it was ever thus. Europe recovered after losing about half its population at the time of the Black Death.

@HeddaGarbled No! Immigration just kicks the can further down the road (again) and frankly we've been doing that for long enough.

We need to take the pain now, those who have the greatest resources need to pay more - no matter what their age.

As a society we need to protect our young people and provide them with a life worth living, jobs worth doing and a reason to have their own children.

At the moment we are asking them to bear a massive burden of paying for non working people to have a better standard of living than them.

Some of them have realised that only a fool would do this - and opted out. I don't blame them.

This is not just UK - across the world young people are deciding not to take on this burden.

That would certainly help ease the issue.

But against the political backdrop of a country that wouldnt accept the winter fuel allowance being means tested, it isnt going to happen any time soon.

Dearest Muckfusk, thank you for debating sensibly. Yes of course I understand ecosystems and their connectivity with wellbeing. I am reasonably well educated and thoughtful, or I like to think I am. But on the infinite debate between history, geography and natural history, I tend to take a position on the side of humanity.

Wouldn’t relaxing immigration restrictions solve everything?

I see plenty of large families doing sad face in the Daily Mail who seem to be making up for the women having fewer or no children.

Depends on the country doesn’t it. UK, USA and China as examples are low. Nigeria, Kenya, Tanzania in the 3/4/5 children ball park.

Natural consequence as I see it in the UK is in the future, people won’t have families to support them. Not necessarily personal care, but even helping fill in forms, set the new TV up, odd little jobs that older folk struggle with. Hopefully we become more community based, rather than individual based, otherwise it will be a shit show.

@BoldGreenDreamer

We either need more young people, or slash state spending on older people.

Or increase taxes/reduce benefits for the richer older people.

Damn good! The world will be a much better place without humans ruining and killing everything.