AIBU The global fertility crisis is the biggest crisis humanity has ever faced?

There are plenty of people in the world. Too many. Plenty of people are still being born. It’s fine.

Agree. They are either failing to see or failing to care about the direct relationship between population and the decline of habitat and resources.

@MuckFusk Fair point. There were too many 'yous' going on.

I had got a bit aerated. I think we're on the same page, but whilst I'd love the very rich to pay more, at the moment it's not them paying.

It is the working poor paying more as a percentage and it is poorer people who are doing care work.

It is also true that those who are poorer and doing manual work are more likely to die younger. I see people round me working in hard public sector jobs die before they reach pension age - mostly women and yet the people we care for (and their relatives) are often demanding more of everything and seem absolutely affronted to be asked to pay any contribution at all - even when it is very very clear that they have more than enough to do so.

There's two options, either the population can keep increasing, or it can decrease to a manageable level. The people who want it to keep increasing are the selfish ones, as sooner or later natural resources run out and people start to starve, die of thirst or asphyxiate due to lack of breathable air.

Indeed. That nonsense about being happy about suffering was a trollish question which doesn't really deserve an answer actually.

It's the discussion itself that's not that deep, not the problem. We are strangers on the internet having a casual conversation, not world leaders at a summit on falling birthrates.

You have posed a begging the question fallacy, so your question can't be answered under those conditions. If you rephrase it without the false assumptions baked in I can answer. The continuation of humanity may well be the most important thing to you, but assuming that because I prioritize the planet first means I don't care whether people suffer is tugging on the wrong end of the stick. Quite the opposite.

My eldest doesn't want children. He's 21 and both him and his GF are talking about getting sterilised. I think that getting more common.

This. In the UK at least, it's not just an ageing population but one that is a lot less healthy than previous generations. There are always going to be horrible diseases and bad luck but a lot of people could have a much healthier 50-80+ by living a healthier lifestyle, which is bloody difficult with all the junk food outlets everywhere.

I think it may be behavioural sink

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Behavioral_sink

Happy? No. I'm unhappy about all the current options but accept the human population can't just keep on increasing. There's a lot of shit options and I hope that we find a tolerable way through the mess we've made

I was talking about how the poster directed it at me personally. "You" this and "you" that. It came across as angry to me.
I did address the point. The poster accused me of wanting poorer people to pay, which was untrue. I have stated repeatedly how I think this should be solved and it certainly didn't involve making poor people pay more.

Maybe people can say where the population would feel comfortable. 5bn global?

UK reduced down a bit too

Naturally of course

Agree 100%.

I think humans are the worst thing for the planet…nature will still be important and amazing and awe inspiring even if there is no-one to bear witness to it

though in the meantime, pensions will be a disaster.

The PP's post was level headed, the "you need to calm down" just seems like a bad faith way of declining to address the point.

'It's not that deep'

Seriously? It's the MOST important thing - the continuation of humanity, the future of our children and grandchildren and any generations after them.

Are you happy for them to suffer?

You're right. They aren't up for it and we all need to put pressure on them to do it. The equivalent to the Labour party here (Canada) seems to be sincere, but they've never been in power federally, so who knows.

But even if you think humanity should die out as a species; using that to summarily dismissed the economic time bomb (which is becoming increasingly explosive over time) being passed down the generations is selfish.

You can advocate for a controlled reduction or even extinction of humanity, if you like, but using it to shut down conversation of how we mitigate the economic disaster we are imposing on the next generation, without even considering how the load may be shared, is pretty gross.

At least, though, those who are willing to put their money where their mouth is, and "play their part" in extinction are sharing the burden in a way (so being less morally nihilistic).

Maybe you need to calm down.
I don't understand why you're getting so personal. It's just a debate on the Internet. It's actually not that deep.

I made it clear what I expect is that wealthy people should pay more, not poor people, so you're talking errant nonsense.

There's a difference between thinking humanity as a species deserves to die out and not caring if people die though. The first is only theoretical. When it's up close and personal people tend to think differently about it.

I wasn't criticizing you for asking the question btw. Just a bit surprised, but now I understand where you're coming from.

@MuckFusk It's not irrelevan
It's entirely relevant - it doesn't matter that you once put 5pence in the pot - it's gone, already spent and you demanding care that now costs £500 isn't going to work.

Pay your own way and stop expecting poorer people to pay for you, care for you and die younger than you.

My DC will not be left homeless and bereft because they will save for their retirement and aged care as soon as they start working. As I have. The fact is the current financial/social care system isn’t set up for population decline but that’s a fairly easy fix-change the system!

Good. The human race needs to be trimmed back a bit or eradicated completely. The earth will go on and some other species will become dominant.

@Jumpupjumphigh It doesn't matter if the young vote - there are simply more old people than young people.

They are outvoted by demographics.

They need their elders to stop being so selfish and consider the future.