Was I unreasonable to say no?

A pp referred to Mumsnet World.

I was a teacher, so fortunate not to be troubled by the holiday dilemma. However, I was a carer for both my mum and my husband for some years.

I had a carer coming in to help with Mum, but I was still needed in the mornings, given her physical disabilities. I had to get my husband dressed and organised before I left for work. (He was fully compos mentis, but had hemiparesis following his stroke.)

Why am I mentioning this? I was a PTC (Dept and Faculty Head) in a Scottish secondary. My HT informed me that a new member of staff was joining my dept.

I duly drew up the timetable, sharing classes equally with regard to mix of ability range, age group etc.

My HT then sent my line manager/depute to inform me that I was to remove all Period 1 classes from the new teacher's timetable. Why? Apparently, she had four children. (Her DH, I later found out, was in SLT in another school.)

Apparently, it's not possible for two parents to manage to deal with 4 able-bodied children and to get into work on time.

In the meantime, the HT added to my teaching timetable. Other PTCs were on a half teaching timetable. I had rather more, partly because I was being made to carry the mother of 4. The lack of management time meant that I was finding myself staying at work later and later because certain tasks had to be completed on the council intranet at that time. Yes, I did consult my union.

The relevance to this thread is that it is definitely my experience that some managers give preferential treatment to those with children.

I could add more - being given cover classes so that parents of both sexes could attend primary school nativity plays, etc.

stand your ground.

my husband works Christmas Eve, Christmas Day, Boxing Day, New Year’s Eve New Year’s Day, my kids birthdays, our birthdays, when he’s sick, when I’m sick and has done for the last 20 years - because he’s a farmer. We’re not entitled to those days off, it’s amazing they have had the last days off. Bet they want milk over Xmas, and nhs care, and petrol, and Tesco… but they shouldn’t have to work, just everyone else? Including you?! If you have managed to get that time off, enjoy it, don’t let them make you feel like they’re entitled to it, it’s your turn and you’re taking it. They’ve had plenty of turns. It’s basic life skills to take turns, sounds like they don’t know how to.

This is awful and I have small children.

you shouldn’t have to lie but if it helps say you have flights somewhere and it’s booked and done

Have they ever shown much gratitude for you covering their shifts?

It seems like they are taking you for granted

I don't need to 'read the room' yes co workers being unreasonable but wouldnt have killed op to say I'm not doing overtime shifts this year.

Just to add OP, next year remember this behaviour and don't offer to work over the holidays if you aren't assigned to do so. I don't do favours for people who treat me like crap.

They are acting vile, entitled and selfish. You are completely reasonable to say no, you are also deserve Christmas. Stand firm and enjoy your time off OP.

No you are not being unreasonable. Stick to your guns and enjoy a well deserved Christmas off!

They choose to work in a job where they might have to work over Christmas. for 5 years, they have been lucky. This year they are not.

I can see how they feel, but you are just as entitled to a Christmas break as they are.

It sounds like they will make your life hell now though, but keep a record of any harassment or bullying from them and report it to HR.

Neither management or your colleagues can force you to change, but obviously the working environment will not be very nice for you.

We dont have children but that’s because I’m infertile it’s not because we don’t want them.

completely irrelevant, you don't have to justify yourself.

Don't feel guilty, you deserve Christmas as much as anyone else. No child's Christmas is ever going to be ruined because a parent is working at some point, they are just being selfish idiots. If they want to cancel Christmas because they're sulking, it's their loss.

Those types of people wouldn't ever cover you for 5 minutes but expect it from you. Typical CFs.

Your colleagues are being ridiculous, but you know that already. Simply say you'd made tentative plans to go away this year and since your time off was approved you've now made final plans that cannot be altered. The person who said she didn't request time off because she thought you'd cover whatever time she didn't ask for is either completely incapable of following basic directions (in which case your employer probably should be making special accommodations for her) or lying to guilt-trip you. Have a great holiday!

How cheeky for someone to assume you will cover those shifts! Their childcare responsibilities are not your problem!

The age of the children is irrelevant! What if you wanted to visit elderly parents at Christmas?

Hopefully it’ll be a five day wonder and they’ll move on.

Enjoy your holiday!

and they gave six months to sort themselves out!

In your place, OP, I'd be very attempted to tell them to GTF.

I'm also childless - not through choice. Try telling them to check their privilege.

ETA Sorry - didn't mean to quote.

You have done your bit more than once. You are entitled to time off too.

Imagine sitting crying over Christmas 6 months before in June 🤣

Diddums they knew what they were signing up for when they got the job . They chose to have kids . And said kids won’t melt like a snowman just coz their Mum won’t be there on Christmas morning to see them open their presents … many children will be losing their parents this year and would love to be able to celebrate Xmas with them even if it was the day before or day after … they need to see there’s more important things going on in the world than having to work Xmas day !

If you’re still there come Christmas you need a cast iron alibi ready for being unavailable to cover them all ringing in sick.

Bloody hell. YANBU.

Where is the gratitude for covering their Christmas for the last five years?

If they don't have an attitude adjustment pretty speedily I would make a complaint OP. Entitled bullies.

@Thefourth For first time in 5 years I have Christmas Eve, Christmas Day, Boxing Day & NYD off. Im Working nye.

Christmas eve and New Year's eve are normal working days that are not different or special from any other day.

I have been massively guilty of tripped by 3 colleagues who have said I must pick up their Christmas shifts because they have children and I don’t.

Tell them to fuck off.

Contrary to the beliefs of parents:

• The lives of children are not inherently more valuable than the lives of grown adults.
• Parents are not (and should not) be entitled to special benefits and privileges that are not afforded to people without children.

Stick to your guns op. You’re well within your rights to have the time off, you have as much right as anyone else. Your manager is being a dick by pressurising you into working some of the shifts, he should have your back

You need to tell the entitled arses to piss right off! I have to work some of Xmas / new year. I have kids. I would NEVER expect someone without kids to cover my shifts just because they don’t have any children. Insane. Enjoy some well deserved time off!!! And look for a job with kinder people 💕

Your work needs to be more strict and not allow the swaps. It's their policy that has caused this.
I used to work Xmas eve and day every year. Boxing day, new years eve or day too, depending on whether it fell on a Sunday. I knew going into church musicianship that would be the case.
Offspring now works on an intensive care ward. They get told their shifts over the festive period. No swaps allowed. If you're rota'd to work, you work. Everyone grumbles and then make the best of it.

I have kids but don't work shifts. I would think its fair that you get your holiday allocation as you requested and as its planned and can have some time off yourself this christmas if you have forgone your previous years then you have done your bit. They can also change jobs if they dont like it they went for a job that has shifts over christmas, so they have to deal with that.

Well whoop dee doo for you. Not sure how your comment helps the OP though.

OP, talk to your manager. Their behavior is unacceptable and needs to be nipped in the bud by them.

You’re entitled to have Christmas off as well as those with kids!