To be very anxious about the assisted dying bill?

The Association of Palliative Medicine don't support this bill.

That’s contradictory. If they’re incapable of understanding they don’t have capacity.

The comments you quoted was in response to a poster who said that family would be able to talk them out of it. That's the difference it makes.

My ASD DC would be found to have capacity to make this decision, as would my good friend with LD. Without next of kin being informed, both would die when they didn't understand what they were agreeing too.

Sorry, I haven't read the bill; I do support assisted dying but my concern would be that it shouldn't be suggested by doctors / health professionals etc; the request should come voluntarily from the patient. That would be my only concern (plus all the other checks PP have mentioned).

Clearly we are not going to come to an agreement on this.
I think this bill should not be law, you disagree. Let's leave it there.

I suspect though that most people who truly loved their relatives and friends selflessly would have rather they didnt die in agony. We have to remember these people are already dying, they arent going to get better or suddenly be in less pain and theres only so much medicine can do, it cant eradicate all types of pain and often in the process the patient is left unconscious and their body slowly shuts down.

I wish anyone opposing this bill would have to spend a year working with these patients and their families and I doubt there would be anywhere near the same level of opposition to this bill.

Yeah you’re wrong @JumpingPumpkin

What difference does that make? Just because there is no legal obligation to inform next of kin of the patients decision (which I agree with, actually) doesn’t mean that some patients won’t choose to tell family and then get talked out of it.

Why is everyone so desperate to remove people’s autonomy?

@CorneliaCupp

i don’t care what anyone says, my view is that people whose illness means they will only get worse not better, who are in pain and misery, who have lost all dignity etc should not be forced to keep suffering if they don’t want to. How could you deny someone in that situation that basic right? It’s their life and their body after all.

I’m sorry you feel that way. Personally I think it’s a victory for compassion and humanity and gives me a great deal of comfort should I ever find myself in those circumstances. I think the safeguards are more than sufficient.

No, we do not have that choice.
We have a choice of attempting it by any number of terrible means that aren’t guaranteed to work and that could be a hell of a lot more uncomfortable and painful than drugs they would use when the bill comes in to effect. Also, potential family members who want to help wouldn’t be guilted in to making an awful decision whether they should help or not and won’t have to think about the criminal aspects of it.

And what if it doesn’t work but the patient is left severely disabled and in even more pain than they were? Or a loved one has to go through the trauma of finding them?

YANBU. It’ll be a total disaster- people coerced and it not being able to be proven, people doing it to save their children money in care home fees, people doing it after feeling dazzled by a doctor in a white coat. Anorexics, the learning disabled, abused women all at risk.

What a disgrace. I don’t recognise this country anymore.

There is no obligation for next of kin to be informed that a patient has made this decision. They could have put that in the bill, they didn't.

The Royal College of Psychiatrists, the Royal College of Physicians, the Association for Palliative Medicine and most disability campaigners and organisations do not support this bill. It does not sufficiently protect the vulnerable.
Anyone dying in pain, any suffering is always a tragedy, of course. But the risks of this particular bill are too high.
It is possible to think that dying in pain is horrendous, and also not support this bill. There is enough compassion and empathy to go around.

Absolutely agree the “but Canada” mumble mumble “slippery slope” argument doesn’t hold any weight whatsoever.

It really is quite simple, if you don’t agree with the bill then don’t choose assisted dying should you ever need it.

People are talking about the amount of people who may be coerced in to it but judging by this thread, I think the opposite is more likely. That the individual patient will want to have the option but their family, who aren’t even the ones suffering, will lay on the guilt and talk them out of it.

This. I really really wish my family hadn’t had to suffer like they did, for what? They had no pleasure, just pain in the last months. This way people can say goodbye and they can go peacefully.
My friends have relatives with mnd and dementia and it’s just a slow cruel death.
In many cases family cling on to hope of an improvement so I can see that stopping someone getting it.. my sister was desperate to die, I was desperate to see her free, but everyone else was still hoping for a miracle while her body was riddled with cancer and she couldn’t breathe

It’s up to people to take out an LPA and make their wishes clear. Afaik, they can also set out their wishes in an advance directive or living will.

When MIL was in hospital for her last few days, the consultant took me off for a talk, because I was the oldest adult from the family there at the time. I had taken DC to say goodbye to her. He said MIL needed dialysis but was too frail; she was getting IV fluids and nutrition, but couldn’t stay there forever. He asked what her wishes were and I said to die at home. He told me to ask her children, the blood relatives either to take her home to die; or he was going to withdraw treatment and she’d die in the hospital.

I suspected MIL had mild cognitive deterioration; but she was never diagnosed with dementia nor failed a test of mental capacity.

It’s up to doctors to be frank with the family about not putting patients through pointless treatment. It’s not a justification for AD.

THIS! END OF. It really is that simple.

Isn't it only going to apply to terminally ill people with 6 months or less left to live?

If so, I am not sure what anyone outside of that specific criteria is worried about.

By the way, being in your last weeks of a terminal illness is not just pain for some. It is things like hallucinating, or vomiting faeces. The best palliative care in the world can not deal with all the pain and all the symptoms. Unless you just want anyone that is near the end to just be sedated until they pass... in which case, who are you doing it for? Them, or you?

I am so sorry you feel anxious, but I welcome the right for people to end their lives when they wish to, without causing others or themselves to be implicated in a crime.

@CorneliaCupp

its good it has consequences for everyone. Everyone has the choice to end their suffering if they want to. If they don’t want to, fine. It’s good to have that choice for everyone. Ffs, we don’t let animals suffer on why should humans have to endure?? Let’s have some empathy and compassion.

You absolutely have that choice. And have had that choice ever since suicide was decriminalised. That’s not what you’re asking for or what “assisted dying” is about, is it? The “assisted” bit is crucial.

Can you really not see how this law has consequences for everyone? Regardless of their feelings about it?
If everyone just thought about themselves, as you suggest, who would look after those who need help? And for whom this bill has made life more dangerous?

Exactly! You just worry about your own body and your own life @CorneliaCupp and let people who are in great pain and suffering with no chance of getting better end their life if they so wish.

Can't get over the naivety of the majority of posters on this thread