To be very anxious about the assisted dying bill?

Presumably if lots of people feel the way I do, then palliative care is falling short. That's all.

I know. I think they feel they're somehow justified because they think ER won't use it herself and just wants everyone else to be "murdered" they're completely deluded though. Even if that did end up happening (it won't) the people trying to get this bill passed do not want that. It makes me so angry seeing the stuff people are saying on twitter.

My choice would be to say goodbye to my loved ones & then drift off to the sound of Mozart, Byrd, Handel & others on my play list.

I'm anxious about it - I'm desperately hoping it will get passed! I hope if I'm ever in that dreadful position, in awful pain or losing dignity, knowing I'm going to die, that I'll have the option to end it. I think it's cruel to force people to carry on suffering when they don't want to.

Talking too him for a few minutes maybe yes but talk to him repeatedly and you will see he has no real clue about actions and consequences he would honestly think death is temporary he doesn't even understand it, it's hard to explain he thinks they have "gone away" then he forgets they were ever here we try to explain but it doesn't process and to be honest I've stopped trying so hard he is happy not understanding

That’s horrific. What kind of people would behave like that?

The other solution is the one this bill would allow. I’d rather die having been alert and aware and said goodbye to the people I love than spend weeks sedated to oblivion.

The patient if in extreme pain it's the only solution to relieve their pain. Always do what is best for the patient.

The doctors can manage the meds so that the patient can interact with loved ones , yet not in extreme pain, then increase it so that they are completely unaware of the pain.

The doctors work with the patient to manage pain. It's all very patient-cantered, loving calm environment with the patient leading & in control of their own care plan. I've seen some people manage extreme pain because they want to be fully conscious & aware, others would rather drift away on a cloud of meds - up to them. .

It’s not that they fear choice. It’s that they fear loss of income stream. Or they are indoctrinated by religion.

I'm for it. Having seen the absolutely vile things said by those against the bill towards Esther Rantzen and others I have no doubt I'm on the right side of things. Seriously these people claim to be against coercion of the elderly and vulnerable and then turn around and demand to know why ER (an elderly vulnerable person) has not gone to Switzerland already, why she's still here despite only being given 6mths to live 2yrs ago, calling her Esther Rancid etc. they are vile and despicable. What is there to fear from a choice?

@Fiver555 what should the association of palliative care do better then?

How would you fix palliative care?

Well then I think the Association of Palliative Medicine needs to do better, so that people do not have to go through what people are going through.

Thanks. There’s a very interesting document from these same people.

One can see that many people have much to gain from extending palliative and end of life care, the need for care homes, home care.

It costs a lot of money. People often pay with their houses. The drugs alone cost millions. Interesting, isn’t it.

Not even delved into the IHT implications (gvt gets less), pensions (gvt keeps less with current rules, but of course Reeves is updating pension rules so more goes back to the gvt). Etc. once one starts looking, and seeing, it’s hard to unsee.

This along with the religious contingent provides many with arguments to dislike Assisted Dying.

None of which look for the best outcome for individuals, nor for personal choice and control.

We see you. AD means a lot of entities receive a lot less ££££. Of course it’s not in their interest to support AD.

https://palliativecarecommission.uk/report

‘Palliative care and end of life care - Opportunities for England’

@mutinyonthetwix

To ensure you’ve made a safe and holistic assessment, I’d still argue that their assessment is still very important in the process and if they’re saying they cannot safely do that, it’s a concern.

And statistically the very high levels of severe depression and anxiety that are triggered by a terminal diagnosis (evidence based) might make it less niche that we’d like to think? 😞

Yep, it is for the benefit of the relatives.

If you’re sedated to the point where you don’t know what’s going on around you, quite honestly you might as well be dead. Why would anyone want that?

Or it just tough shit for them to protect others from something that is really unlikely to happen? Should they just be left to suffer because suffering is a part of life?

Agree. There are lots of things that people could be pressured or coerced into doing. We don't outlaw them just because some people might be pressured or coerced. We don't stop everybody being able to do those things if they want to.

See my response to pp. My experience of vets was eye opening when my cat was unwell. I suspect she went before her time.

Thats exactly my thought. Its really not our business or worry to be anxious about if its passed.

No I don’t think it’s justified to spend enough money to feed a village in the developing world for a pet. BUT when my cat was unwell all I was offered was to investigate her up hill and down dale for asthma- talking ct scans, bronchoscopy, mri and echo all separately and under GA. When I actually asked for asthma treatment I was told if I wasn’t going to go for all investigations then all they could offer was to have her put down.
so I wouldn’t be surprised we are in the same position as Canada soon.

@CorneliaCupp

”I believe that this bill will cause people to suffer who wouldn't itherwise, and therefore on balance is a bad bill.”

thats hypothetical. And what about those who would definitely benefit from the bill who are in pain now?? Or it just tough shit for them to protect others from something that is really unlikely to happen? Should they just be left to suffer because suffering is a part of life?

Even the most fabulous palliative care doesn't always avoid a long drawn undignified traumatic death. My mum recently died after 7 weeks in hospice. It was horrific, she lost all dignity and independence in her last few weeks. It's true when folk say we wouldn't put a dog through it. I fully support the Bill

I agree!
This conversation right here right now IS an intellectual debate. But you are right, it is about real lives.
No one should ever have to suffer, I don't think any rational person would take any pleasure in the suffering of another person.
I believe that this bill will cause people to suffer who wouldn't itherwise, and therefore on balance is a bad bill. You have already said that there is nothing that anyone can say that could possibly change your mind, so why carry on having this conversation?
We disagree with each other, and that's ok.

https://apmonline.org/wp-content/uploads/Assisted-Dying-Briefing-16.05.25.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwi35-mh54WOAxWuTkEAHc78CW0QFnoECFQQAQ&sqi=2&usg=AOvVaw3oSnOfg4_9U8Z_-j8a38Ad

It does also mention concern about medical professionals being required to participate but the Bill already addresses that.... unless that's a reference to the Scottish or IoM legislation I suppose.