The US has bombed Fordow and other sites.

And if the escalation brings known nuclear powers into the conflict then the imminent threat increases exponentially.

Surely if you bomb sites with nuclear material the radioactive stuff will leak and blow everywhere? What an clusterf* just to boost Trumps ego after that dismal military parade. Did Congress have to approve his actions?

Only if you believe the threat exists because of claims made by proven liars.

The inconsistency of some posters is astonishing.

A few weeks ago they were railing against and scaremongering about Starmer planning to provide peacekeepers to Ukraine. Now they are cheering on the 🍊 warmongerer.

Why do you say that?

Here's the peace loving president again:
https://x.com/TrumpWarRoom/status/1850654992975454219

Aye- and if Iran manages to get a ballistic missile onto an American warship with mass casulaties what next - Iran is full of weapons, munitions and radiaoctive material if the country breaks down then a lot of angry nutters with stuff will be looking for revenge. A lot of these types don't fear death like we do.

Israel has crippled quite a lot of their capabities.

The UK has always been the lapdog of the US. There's no precedent for a UK PM telling America to piss off. We've already sent RAF jets under some sort of vague 'stabilising' justification that no lay person seems to understand. Starmer has said he knew about Trumps decision. That's not a neutral position. That makes us a target for terrorist reprisals. Millions of pounds of our money is going to arming Israel and Ukraine against the wishes of the vast majority and now millions more will be poured into the coffers of the war machine while we all face working til we're worn out at 68/69 to fund it. And the migrant crisis that war hugely contributes to creates a battle for housing, healthcare and resources that make life an uphill struggle. It's a terrible time to be a UK citizen and taxpayer. We are powerless. Remember the giant Don't Attack Iraq protests? Decisions had already been made, Blair had already assured the US he was with them (I paraphrase). The same will have happened here.

I can understand the fear of escalation and I share it to a degree but the Iran nuclear threat doesn’t go away over time, it gets bigger and harder to deal with.

Aye- and if Iran manages to get a ballistic missile onto an American warship with mass casulaties what next - Iran is full of weapons, munitions and radiaoctive material if the country breaks down then a lot of angry nutters with stuff will be looking for revenge. A lot of these types don't fear death like we do.

Anyone with any sense would!!

* sorry this was quoting a part of a debate about the term genocide which linked to an article about the UN but the quote has got lost

Worth noting that the UNs special advisor on genocide Alice Nderitu said Israel wasn't committing genocide (and has since been fired).

There is significant historical bias against Israel from the UN - it will need to be another organisation or court that ultimately decides. As things stand Israel has certainly committed war crimes but doesn't appear to meet the international definition of genocide, though I understand emotively why many are using the term as they see horrific things reported daily.

I'll also note that the reason many Jews and Israelis find the use of the term genocide to be targeted is because the term was coined to describe the Holocaust - where 6 million Jews, or one third of the global Jewish population was systematically rounded up and summarily murdered. Many starved to death in the concentration camps. No aid and no medicine was given. Calling the current (awful) situation in Gaza genocide when despite the possible genocidal wishes of some in Israel's government aid has got through (other than for 11 weeks), starvation rates have been very low (57 starvation related deaths have been reported) and medication / vaccination programmes have been run can feel like it's undermining what happened in the Holocaust.

the Israeli offensive has clearly caused far too many civilian deaths but if this were a systematic attempt to wipe out the Palestinians - which is generally what we consider genocide, as seen in Rwanda for example where 800,000 were systematically murdered in 10 days or in Cambodia where 1.5 - 2 million (25 percent of the population) were systematically murdered - it would look very different and have a much higher death toll.

There are also instances like America (and our) 'war on terror' in which 3 million were killed and undeniable war crimes took place but we don't refer to that as genocide.

I think we can be just as critical of the Israeli government by calling some of going on in Gaza a war crime or crime against humanity without using the term genocide specifically against the group who suffered the worst historical genocide.

I do think it's also worth noting that the anti-war protests in Israel - by comparative population size - have been as large as if an entire medium sized US state came out to protest. By population size they've been far bigger than the protests in the US and U.K. -

There certainly isn't mass support for Netanyahu in Israel - which is why he's had extreme right wing warmongers like Ben Gvir and Smotrich in his cabinet - it's a coalition government and he teamed up with the (even more) extreme right to claim power. This is why he's playing so hard to that side - that's his base now.

Many Israeli military- including a large number of the Israeli air force- have called for an end to the Gaza conflict.

About 97 percent of Jews worldwide consider themselves Zionists. Zionism doesn't mean supporting the Israeli government or the conflict in Gaza - moderate Zionists support a peaceful two state solution. Israel is part of the Shema - an ancient prayer that Jews say twice daily. Like Muslims and Mecca it is pretty difficult to separate Israel from the Jewish faith - another reason that Jews really struggle with some of the language used and 'anti Zionism' which can be taken to mean 'anti-97 percent of jews'.

Really there needs to be another term for people critical of the Gaza conflict or critical of the Israeli Government rather than the much too broad antizionist.

Sorry for the long post but I think the tone of rhetoric can be very important and sometimes it's much more clear and effective to say something in terms that don't immediately cause anger or upset.

Ultimately I hope for peace, stability and safety for all.

Okay, I give up. You seem determined to not read and understand my posts.

You carry on listening to your BBC analysts and supporting escalating violence. I just hope that people like yourself, who are supporting this massive escalation, just in case, won't be complaining about all the potential consequences too.

I think it depends on whether you think the risk of a pre-emptive strike starting WW3 is worth it and whether you are persuaded that proven liars in our political class are telling the truth this time. I think the stakes are too high and would prefer a less reckless strategy.

Tbf if the exact same action had been carried out under a Dem administration, people would be a lot less panicked.

One doesn't have to beat the drum for war or be a warmonger to recognise there is merit in US giving a show of strength towards Iran, which is a country where even its own citizens want regime change.

There are some experts (eg Max Hastings the eminent war scholar and historian) who say this was an action long overdue. I am no Trump apologist but I believe he has made a smart move in reminding the Iranian Regime not to bugger about with nuclear or you'll have to square up to the American military might and get an almighty drubbing

Having nuclear capability is more than enriching uranium/plutonium, it needs weaponry to do something dangerous with it. The concern was that Iran had a number of nuclear scientists in their midst beavering away developing the accompanying artillery capability

how would the world feel if nobody did anything and Iran continued to quietly develop their capability in those mountainside facilities. I bet everyone on SM would soon be shrieking "why didn't anyone do anything to stop them a lot sooner???"

this has taken Iran back decades. It has given those nasty bullies a bloody nose. Yes they may come back in years to come but for now it has given them a strong message.

these are the trade offs that world leaders have to constantly grapple with, learn lessons and mistakes from the past and do thing better. It cannot be compared to Iraq and Afghanistan, There isn't regime change, there aren't boots on the ground (arguably to win, that's what would be needed), so it has to be a compromise.

The only part of Trump's address I cringed at was him saying "We love you God". Ffs 🤦‍♀️

.

I bet you also think Tony Blair’s sexed up dossier on Iraq’s WMD was real 🙄

No, that was clearly a massive load of made-up shite and he should have been in the Hague for what he did.

Are you kidding me? Jesus wept, Israel have dropped bombs on Palestine since the 1950s...

Yes Israel isn't an extremist state which doesn't imprison children or it's own people for not agreeing with it's extremist views.

Oh those 'pesky' people who just want to live (including children and babies who have been killed by israel).You couldn't sound more racist if you tried.

UN is a joke, pure and simple. Given their actions, or lack of, in Ukraine I'm struggling to understand it's purpose these days. UN's credibility is precisely zero

I bet you also think Tony Blair’s sexed up dossier on Iraq’s WMD was real 🙄

I didn’t say BBC only. And no not naive or ‘dumbed down’. There are various pieces I’ve read of course but for access I listen while working it’s easier. And to podcasts too which have further insight.

I haven’t seen your posts reach a higher level. I can’t see NK has them so we’ll be fine echoed anywhere.

Since might is right now and intrenational law no longer applies - no moaning when China takes back Taiwan which isn't even a country in the eyes of most of the world. After all what are we going to do about it.

Only in response to Hamas aggression.

The first major conflict between Israel and Hamas, which included Israeli air strikes and a ground invasion, took place at the end of 2008. Hostilities continued to break out, most notably in 2012, 2014, and 2021.

Among the factors complicating those hostilities were the high population density of the Gaza Strip and the proliferation of subterranean tunnels there.

Those tunnels were used by Hamas and other Gazans to sidestep the blockade, to conduct operations, and to hide from Israeli forces, and they were difficult to detect or destroy, especially when constructed under urban dwellings.

They were not used as bomb shelters for citizens.

Oh please! Israel is the greatest threat to the Middle East and the world!

Only because they're surrounded by extremists who want to annihilate them, and they have that pesky habit of not letting that happen.