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The US has bombed Fordow and other sites.

807 replies

MistressoftheDarkSide · 22/06/2025 01:19

https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2025/jun/22/israel-iran-war-live-trump-says-us-has-attacked-nuclear-sites-in-iran-including-fordow

OP posts:
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MistressoftheDarkSide · 23/06/2025 09:17

EasternStandard · 23/06/2025 09:10

I just listened to an Iranian regime statement with all its revenge and brimstone and said oh fuck off.

They sound unhinged and no it doesn’t make me think they can hold enriched uranium in a safe and civilised manner.

I don't disagree.

OP posts:
EasternStandard · 23/06/2025 09:10

MistressoftheDarkSide · 23/06/2025 08:46

I've been trying to put my finger on why I am feeling so..... I don't know quite how to put it - unsettled, aggrieved, paranoid? About a situation that is completely out of my control, and which is unlikely to have a direct affect on me, for which I realise my privilege of course. My anger and fear for ordinary people caught up in this and the horror if it all is disproportionate and one might possibly suggest I am narcissistic or "making it all about me" or virtue signalling, - and I will accept that, but this is the only place I'll be voicing my thoughts on this because I accept they're completely unimportant.

However, I've just had a bit of a light bulb moment. I know where these feelings are coming from.

I've posted on here on threads about the unfortunate experience I had with SS when my DS was a baby, and the psychological number it did on me. And this is where it's coming from.

Bear with me.

So, I was falsely accused of harming my son, and it went through the courts for 18 months until it resolved in my favour, albeit remaining under a strong cloud of suspicion.

The bit that is resonant is this.

Every time we went to court, we'd wait for our slot in the corridor outside. DP and I had a solicitor each, as we weren't married, as that's how it worked at the time. Each solicitor at one point tested the ground to see if we'd turn on each other, or come to an agreement so only one of us would pursue getting custody of our son.

Our DS had his own solicitor and a Guardian Ad-Litem, who would often apply pressure for us to come up with "an answer" for what had happened, but, importantly, that answer had to be acceptable to the courts. And as we honestly didn't know, anything we presented via research etc was rejected by a succession of experts on "the balance of probabilities".

It was a complete nightmare, and we came really close to losing our son.

But the point I'm trying to get to is this - we'd sit in that corridor, and the solicitors (including the LA solicitor) would get into a huddle and essentially decide what was going to go before the judge. Going by what we could overhear, there was alot of out of work socialising they would engage in my, as you would in a any particular professional circle. References would be made to such and such a dinner, or law related event they'd attended, occasionally the Judges name would crop up, and it was perfectly clear that alot went on "behind the scenes" as it were, in terms of "steering cases".

The way they chatted, their jovilality, their bonhomie used to drive me insane. I was in my mid 20s, fairly naive, and it was wrong, wrong, wrong, that I was essentially just a puppet in what felt like a game or intellectual exercise, a piece of theatre dependent on things I had to submit to, yet had fuck all control over. This was my entire life dammit, this was real, and I'd even got told off for taking things too personally, or being arrogant for challenging things that were wrong - that was nit-picking.

Don't get me wrong, my solicitor was on my side and got the right result, but the process and the machinations were a painful revelation. And all the while, I had to "get on with my life", "trust the system" and preferably keep my mouth shut, as it got pretty boring for everyone else after a while.

No, I don't think Iran is me in this situation.

I think possibly all the ordinary people, just trying to live, and protect themselves and their families, are experiencing a version of this, obviously on a much more devastating scale. The sense of being at the mercy of people / regimes / governments. Trying to remain true to values, having to bend to survive. Being helpless while those in charge of your fate "negotiate" behind closed doors over fine dining and cigars, being told it's all too complicated for people to understand , trying to figure out "the right side of history" and having to sacrifice principles or beliefs long ingrained to be allowed to have a semblance of life, or to protect your children.

All of this is I think what's really bugging me, alongside of course the fear of escalation and the inevitable destabilisation of the economy and likely security breaches.

My position, in case anyone wonders, can't get past "it's wrong to brutalise and kill people for any reason" with the inevitable underpinning of "yeah, but self-defence". So just make it stop. But not at any cost.

If you've got this far, and think I'm talking out of my arse, that's fine I'll take it.

TLDR: Does anyone else feel like the naughty children banished to the garden while the grown ups decide our fate and drink gin while they're doing it?

I just listened to an Iranian regime statement with all its revenge and brimstone and said oh fuck off.

They sound unhinged and no it doesn’t make me think they can hold enriched uranium in a safe and civilised manner.

MistressoftheDarkSide · 23/06/2025 08:46

I've been trying to put my finger on why I am feeling so..... I don't know quite how to put it - unsettled, aggrieved, paranoid? About a situation that is completely out of my control, and which is unlikely to have a direct affect on me, for which I realise my privilege of course. My anger and fear for ordinary people caught up in this and the horror if it all is disproportionate and one might possibly suggest I am narcissistic or "making it all about me" or virtue signalling, - and I will accept that, but this is the only place I'll be voicing my thoughts on this because I accept they're completely unimportant.

However, I've just had a bit of a light bulb moment. I know where these feelings are coming from.

I've posted on here on threads about the unfortunate experience I had with SS when my DS was a baby, and the psychological number it did on me. And this is where it's coming from.

Bear with me.

So, I was falsely accused of harming my son, and it went through the courts for 18 months until it resolved in my favour, albeit remaining under a strong cloud of suspicion.

The bit that is resonant is this.

Every time we went to court, we'd wait for our slot in the corridor outside. DP and I had a solicitor each, as we weren't married, as that's how it worked at the time. Each solicitor at one point tested the ground to see if we'd turn on each other, or come to an agreement so only one of us would pursue getting custody of our son.

Our DS had his own solicitor and a Guardian Ad-Litem, who would often apply pressure for us to come up with "an answer" for what had happened, but, importantly, that answer had to be acceptable to the courts. And as we honestly didn't know, anything we presented via research etc was rejected by a succession of experts on "the balance of probabilities".

It was a complete nightmare, and we came really close to losing our son.

But the point I'm trying to get to is this - we'd sit in that corridor, and the solicitors (including the LA solicitor) would get into a huddle and essentially decide what was going to go before the judge. Going by what we could overhear, there was alot of out of work socialising they would engage in my, as you would in a any particular professional circle. References would be made to such and such a dinner, or law related event they'd attended, occasionally the Judges name would crop up, and it was perfectly clear that alot went on "behind the scenes" as it were, in terms of "steering cases".

The way they chatted, their jovilality, their bonhomie used to drive me insane. I was in my mid 20s, fairly naive, and it was wrong, wrong, wrong, that I was essentially just a puppet in what felt like a game or intellectual exercise, a piece of theatre dependent on things I had to submit to, yet had fuck all control over. This was my entire life dammit, this was real, and I'd even got told off for taking things too personally, or being arrogant for challenging things that were wrong - that was nit-picking.

Don't get me wrong, my solicitor was on my side and got the right result, but the process and the machinations were a painful revelation. And all the while, I had to "get on with my life", "trust the system" and preferably keep my mouth shut, as it got pretty boring for everyone else after a while.

No, I don't think Iran is me in this situation.

I think possibly all the ordinary people, just trying to live, and protect themselves and their families, are experiencing a version of this, obviously on a much more devastating scale. The sense of being at the mercy of people / regimes / governments. Trying to remain true to values, having to bend to survive. Being helpless while those in charge of your fate "negotiate" behind closed doors over fine dining and cigars, being told it's all too complicated for people to understand , trying to figure out "the right side of history" and having to sacrifice principles or beliefs long ingrained to be allowed to have a semblance of life, or to protect your children.

All of this is I think what's really bugging me, alongside of course the fear of escalation and the inevitable destabilisation of the economy and likely security breaches.

My position, in case anyone wonders, can't get past "it's wrong to brutalise and kill people for any reason" with the inevitable underpinning of "yeah, but self-defence". So just make it stop. But not at any cost.

If you've got this far, and think I'm talking out of my arse, that's fine I'll take it.

TLDR: Does anyone else feel like the naughty children banished to the garden while the grown ups decide our fate and drink gin while they're doing it?

OP posts:
rainingsnoring · 23/06/2025 08:36

HellsBalls · 23/06/2025 08:25

It takes years to create facilities like these. They cannot just be dismantled and moved overnight, or even in days or weeks.

If the bombs did not destroy Fordow where are the pictures from Iran proving it?

I doubt the Iranians would want to advertise it if their uranium supplies are still in existence! As I have said earlier, this action will simply embolden them and make them more likely to instigate or continue a program to develop weapons.
If I am wrong, that's fantastic news as there will be no more attacks.

EasternStandard · 23/06/2025 08:27

I’ve listened to a couple of Iranian speakers, no one yet has answered on why they’ve got the enriched uranium.

One said ‘deterrent’ so that is closer to admitting its possession.

HellsBalls · 23/06/2025 08:25

rainingsnoring · 23/06/2025 06:59

@EasternStandard Just FYI (apologies if already mentioned), Trump is now talking about regime change and MIGI and Netanyahu says the bombing hasn't had such a great effect after all!

I did warn you! Apologies for calling you naive repeatedly but it was never going to be so straightforward.

From what I have watched in the evening, the Iranians had already moved most of their critical and most extensive equipment. The US strikes caused relatively little damage and were essentially for political effect because the mission was poorly executed from a military perspective. Trump has now put thousands of ME based service people at risk. Of course, that's on top of what I said earlier about making it more likely that Iran will retaliate, etc, etc

It takes years to create facilities like these. They cannot just be dismantled and moved overnight, or even in days or weeks.

If the bombs did not destroy Fordow where are the pictures from Iran proving it?

loopinloo · 23/06/2025 08:17

mrsrtobinson · 23/06/2025 07:27

@rainingsnoring "From what I have watched in the evening, the Iranians had already moved most of their critical and most extensive equipment."

Where to?

Wherever they move it to won't give the protection it had before under a mountain range.

If they did USA may well be aware of this. Satellites are able to observe a cigarette packet on a New York sidewalk, so there's no problem observing movements in an uninhabited region.

Do you not think the recent strikes have significantly complicated the task of tracking Iran’s uranium? As I’ve mentioned before, none of the nuclear sites targeted by the U.S. were hidden or secret. On the contrary, they were all functioning under expanded IAEA monitoring. In effect, the U.S. bombed safeguarded nuclear facilities.

IAEA inspectors remained active in Iran and, until Israel’s bombing campaign began on June 13, were inspecting more than one site per day. They are now trying to assess the extent of the damage. While military action may destroy Iran’s declared facilities, it also creates a powerful incentive for Tehran to move its program further underground—beyond the reach of monitoring.

You mentioned that the U.S. can track movements via satellite. Could you clarify what kind of movements you're referring to? I'm struggling to understand how satellite surveillance is any sort of substitute for continuous on-site verification, particularly when it comes to detecting the diversion of nuclear material.

The IAEA has already confirmed that, for over a week, it hasn’t been able to verify the location of Iran’s stockpile of near-bomb-grade uranium. Iranian officials have acknowledged breaking IAEA seals and relocating the material to an undisclosed location. Inspectors have said they’ve lost track of the stockpile due to Israel’s ongoing strikes, which have made access impossible.

As Robert Kelley, a former IAEA director who led inspections in Iraq and Libya, noted: the bombings haven’t just disrupted the IAEA’s ability to monitor Iran’s stockpile—they’ve damaged the very tools used to do so. That includes the forensic techniques essential for tracking uranium diversion. As he explained, “Now that sites have been bombed and all classes of materials have been scattered everywhere, the IAEA will never again be able to use environmental sampling. Particles of every isotopic description have infinite half-lives for forensic purposes, and it will be impossible to sort out their origin.”

Catsandcheese · 23/06/2025 08:07

EasternStandard · 23/06/2025 08:00

We need both. There’s no point stopping the former.

Erm…there’s loads of reasons to stop drilling for fossil fuels.
theres little point in waiting till it all runs out plus the impact on the climate emergency we are all sleepwalking in to.

MushMonster · 23/06/2025 08:03

Loudjay · 23/06/2025 07:59

Maybe people in this country don't like watching babies being starved to death: just a thought .

And their parents being shot trying to get them some food. Every single day.

EasternStandard · 23/06/2025 08:00

Catsandcheese · 23/06/2025 07:57

Drilling in the North Sea won’t help-the oil is not ours. It will just go on the open market and sold at the global price to whoever will buy it.
It’s not going to make up for the 20% lost should Iran block the strait.
We need to stop our reliance on oil and invest in renewables here in the UK for our use in the UK.

We need both. There’s no point stopping the former.

Loudjay · 23/06/2025 07:59

Maybe people in this country don't like watching babies being starved to death: just a thought .

Catsandcheese · 23/06/2025 07:57

Drilling in the North Sea won’t help-the oil is not ours. It will just go on the open market and sold at the global price to whoever will buy it.
It’s not going to make up for the 20% lost should Iran block the strait.
We need to stop our reliance on oil and invest in renewables here in the UK for our use in the UK.

rainingsnoring · 23/06/2025 07:53

MushMonster · 23/06/2025 07:31

But it does look very much like he can. He played up Biden so many times. And now Trump is looking exactly as helpless as Biden was.

Trump has been incredibly foolish. Honestly, I was naive in this as I had hope that he was going to be more peaceful than his predecessors.

He has illegally attacked another country. He has broken the UN charter and his own constitution. He will have angered a lot of people. He has not thought this through and there will very likely be a lot of ramifications for him personally, never mind thousands or even millions of others.

rainingsnoring · 23/06/2025 07:50

mrsrtobinson · 23/06/2025 07:27

@rainingsnoring "From what I have watched in the evening, the Iranians had already moved most of their critical and most extensive equipment."

Where to?

Wherever they move it to won't give the protection it had before under a mountain range.

If they did USA may well be aware of this. Satellites are able to observe a cigarette packet on a New York sidewalk, so there's no problem observing movements in an uninhabited region.

Sadly, the Iranians didn't tell me where they are hiding their uranium. :)

I expect the US is aware of this.

The other issue, as I understand it, is the degree of penetration of the bombs, ie they may well not penetrate at enough depth to destroy.

MumWifeOther · 23/06/2025 07:32

mrsrtobinson · 23/06/2025 07:27

@rainingsnoring "From what I have watched in the evening, the Iranians had already moved most of their critical and most extensive equipment."

Where to?

Wherever they move it to won't give the protection it had before under a mountain range.

If they did USA may well be aware of this. Satellites are able to observe a cigarette packet on a New York sidewalk, so there's no problem observing movements in an uninhabited region.

You think they spent nearly a billion just for bravado and show? 😂 I mean, it’s not inconceivable - they are the masters of deception but naive to think Iran won’t be a few steps ahead…

MushMonster · 23/06/2025 07:31

mrsrtobinson · 23/06/2025 07:20

Bibi can't command Trump to do anything.

But it does look very much like he can. He played up Biden so many times. And now Trump is looking exactly as helpless as Biden was.

rainingsnoring · 23/06/2025 07:28

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

mrsrtobinson · 23/06/2025 07:27

@rainingsnoring "From what I have watched in the evening, the Iranians had already moved most of their critical and most extensive equipment."

Where to?

Wherever they move it to won't give the protection it had before under a mountain range.

If they did USA may well be aware of this. Satellites are able to observe a cigarette packet on a New York sidewalk, so there's no problem observing movements in an uninhabited region.

EasternStandard · 23/06/2025 07:25

mrsrtobinson · 23/06/2025 07:19

OK I get it, but I don't think Iran will close the straights for the reasons I posted earlier.
They'd just upset too many countries.

If they did then the US navy would blockade their ports and cause all sorts of problems with their imports, especially grain.
The last time Iran got pissy about this sort of situation was in 1988 when they mined an American warship. USA retaliated and.it resulted in half the Iranian navy being sunk
Somehow I don't think they want to repeat this.

There is a salutary lesson here to not depend on renewables or importing oil from hundreds of miles away..

We need to start drilling in the North Sea again and quickly !

Agree re North Sea oil. Reducing that a luxury we don’t have.

rainingsnoring · 23/06/2025 07:25

mrsrtobinson · 23/06/2025 07:19

OK I get it, but I don't think Iran will close the straights for the reasons I posted earlier.
They'd just upset too many countries.

If they did then the US navy would blockade their ports and cause all sorts of problems with their imports, especially grain.
The last time Iran got pissy about this sort of situation was in 1988 when they mined an American warship. USA retaliated and.it resulted in half the Iranian navy being sunk
Somehow I don't think they want to repeat this.

There is a salutary lesson here to not depend on renewables or importing oil from hundreds of miles away..

We need to start drilling in the North Sea again and quickly !

I agree fully that the US would try to prevent it if Iran take this action. We don't know how successful the US would be. I don't think Iran have much of a navy now and the Iranians will certainly be prepared to take risks if they do decide to go down this route. I think they may not do it immediately (despite the talk) but it will absolutely remain a weapon of potential 'weapon' that they could use.

N Sea drilling really won't help in this situation, not at all.

mrsrtobinson · 23/06/2025 07:20

MushMonster · 23/06/2025 07:14

@rainingsnoring So Netanyahu is not happy with the extend of the damage. Do we think he will command Trump to do a second strike? He may scold him and all "oh, you did not do a job good enough. Well now you are in it and you will wrestle the lion I just woke up by poking it in the eye, because I say so"

Bibi can't command Trump to do anything.

mrsrtobinson · 23/06/2025 07:19

rainingsnoring · 23/06/2025 06:54

If the oil price spiked, as it would if the S of H was closed, and transport oil was seriously reduced, it would have a negative effect on the world economy in total, in particular the European economy. The US has plenty of its own wild, remember and imports heavy oil from Canada. I imagine they would allow shipping to China, as it has no involvement in this. In general, over the next few years and decades, economies in Europe (inc the UK) are badly at risk anyway.

OK I get it, but I don't think Iran will close the straights for the reasons I posted earlier.
They'd just upset too many countries.

If they did then the US navy would blockade their ports and cause all sorts of problems with their imports, especially grain.
The last time Iran got pissy about this sort of situation was in 1988 when they mined an American warship. USA retaliated and.it resulted in half the Iranian navy being sunk
Somehow I don't think they want to repeat this.

There is a salutary lesson here to not depend on renewables or importing oil from hundreds of miles away..

We need to start drilling in the North Sea again and quickly !

MushMonster · 23/06/2025 07:14

@rainingsnoring So Netanyahu is not happy with the extend of the damage. Do we think he will command Trump to do a second strike? He may scold him and all "oh, you did not do a job good enough. Well now you are in it and you will wrestle the lion I just woke up by poking it in the eye, because I say so"

rainingsnoring · 23/06/2025 06:59

@EasternStandard Just FYI (apologies if already mentioned), Trump is now talking about regime change and MIGI and Netanyahu says the bombing hasn't had such a great effect after all!

I did warn you! Apologies for calling you naive repeatedly but it was never going to be so straightforward.

From what I have watched in the evening, the Iranians had already moved most of their critical and most extensive equipment. The US strikes caused relatively little damage and were essentially for political effect because the mission was poorly executed from a military perspective. Trump has now put thousands of ME based service people at risk. Of course, that's on top of what I said earlier about making it more likely that Iran will retaliate, etc, etc

rainingsnoring · 23/06/2025 06:54

mrsrtobinson · 22/06/2025 20:45

I'm not sure what "economic destruction you refer to?

If the oil price spiked, as it would if the S of H was closed, and transport oil was seriously reduced, it would have a negative effect on the world economy in total, in particular the European economy. The US has plenty of its own wild, remember and imports heavy oil from Canada. I imagine they would allow shipping to China, as it has no involvement in this. In general, over the next few years and decades, economies in Europe (inc the UK) are badly at risk anyway.