I can’t explain what modesty means to my dd age 21

Unfortunately social media plays a part. Young girls as young as 13 in tiny outfits pouting and bending over on tiktok videos. It’s a attention seeking generation for many.

There is a time and a place for being immodest, the beach, the club etc. Anywhere else immodesty all the way as far as I’m concerned but my later teen early twenties daughters obviously have their own views which I don’t police.

I suppose modesty in a basic sense is about dressing in a way that doesn’t deliberately attract attention and say “look at me”. What it means in practice varies from culture to culture though.

In my case I think it’s about dressing appropriately for the occasion (bikini is fine for the beach, not for Tesco) and not exposing parts of your body that people who are not your intimate partner do not want to see (see thong bikinis which don’t cover enough, or not wearing knickers and wearing a very short skirt). In other cultures the term is used to control women, particularly restricting activities.

Is that true though? I feel like there’s at least a thread a week on mumsnet about how young blokes need to pull their trousers up!

I go along the lines of what’s in the law, you aren’t allowed to be naked in public so private areas should be covered like boobs / genitals and bums (this included bum cheeks).

I don’t like the word modest as it feels a more woman specific word, however classy is applied to both sexes. For me classy is more what the royals wouldn’t do as a an example. Which is easy to show children for both sexes.

I agree that anyone should be able to wear what they want within the law, but people need to understand that the way we dress and imply things to others. Like punk clothing etc

Modesty is keeping a little back for the imagination!!!!

You can wear what you want of course and don’t need to cover up from head to toe - but personally I like to keep a little back and not have everything on show !

I dress “modestly” ie I’ll wear shorts and skirts but not so short you can see my butt and I try not to wear tops that show much cleavage (I have an ample bosom!) but to me it’s about respect for others. No one wants to see that much of me! And men gawp whether I have anything on display or not.

Religion is USED to oppress women. But the cause is men and the fact that they want to do it. It's about power, property and ownership. Not true religion at all.

I think modesty in clothing is different than modest as a characteristic.

None of our decisions about what we wear are made in a vacuum. Sometimes the influences are overt, strict, imposed though that of violence or social censure. Other times, it’s more subtle or less obvious.

but it’s absolute nonsense to claim that girls choose to dress as they do ‘for themselves’ - whether it’s modestly or otherwise.

People judge you on how you dress so it is important to be aware of the impression you are giving so that you are making an informed decision.

If you wander round Soho in the evening you will see plenty of men dressed ‘immodestly’. They are there for a night out and give the strong impression that they want to attract other men. If they showed up at the office looking like that then it would be tricky to take them seriously. I think the same applies to women.

I hate the word ‘modest’ though.

I think if she doesn’t get it already 21 is way too late to start having the conversation. I have a DD the same age and had conversations with her from quite young talking about having respect for herself rather than using the word modesty but it was partly that.

I think it's something people need to be aware of, the more skin you expose the more attention you attract and not all attention is good, some males are dodgy and you don't want to attract their attention.

I'm all for people dressing as they wish but when doing so it's worth knowing there can be a downside. Of course girls and women should be able to wear whatever they like, but we do live in a world where females get sexually harassed, assaulted or raped. Some boys/men are violent.

Women get harassed whatever they're wearing. Girls in school uniform get unwanted attention.

I've found the best way to avoid attention is to have a child. If you're going about with young children, somehow most men seem to view you as being in a different box, whether you're wearing. But I disagree that conservative clothes necessarily protect women and girls from harassing behaviour.

We draw the line at public nudity but with skin tone crop tops and bum scrunch shorts we are getting closer and closer to it. The arguments re your body/ your choice for wearing those garments could equally apply to being completely naked. So when that final line is crossed are we going to be ok with that too or be called prudish or controlling if we object?
I don’t think I’m articulating this very well. There are some great explanations made by previous posters about the subconscious influences on what we choose to wear. But I don’t think the move towards almost nudity is a good freeing thing.
As for men dressing modestly, I haven’t noticed that either. St Peters in Rome used to require men to wear long trousers but I noticed at the late Popes lying in state, men wearing shorts and t shirts were being let in. It used to be thought disrespectful to do that.

As I said ‘too modest’. The ‘too’ is the important part. I agree.

The word "modesty" probably does carry outdated connotations - it makes me think that the main consideration in every single thing women wear/do is the potential impact on men.

However, I have no patience with the notion that dressing very explicitly for the male gaze is somehow liberating or empowering without being in any way sexual.

I'm a teacher, and the girls are always saying things to us like "we're literally just existing in our own bodies, and you're sexualising us (by suggesting it's inappropriate to wear a skirt so short that you can see our butt cheeks)". And I usually get a conversation started by asking them how come, in our society, manufacturers don't even make those sorts of clothes for boys/men.

No, it’s extremes that are damaging. You can be modest about your successes by honestly stating your role and what you achieved without being a braggart. If your are TOO modest and play down your role or give too much credit to other people that’s when your successes get devalued.

It’s the same with clothing, you can be modest without covering yourself from top to toe. It’s about wearing clothing that’s appropriate for the location, occasion and audience. You wouldn’t wear a bikini to a christening in a church, but it would be appropriate at a beach. A bikini with postage stamp sized top and a thong bottom wouldn’t be appropriate on a family beach with kids around but would on an adult beach at a club 18-24 type location.

I agree with the above re misogyny etc and that how a women dresses should be her choice. Having said that when we visited Muslim countries such as Turkey and went in religious and holy buildings such as the haggia Sophia grand mosque men as well as women were instructed to dress modestly. I resented having to cover my head, but respect their culture

In the verses on hijab, the Quran instructs men to lower their gaze and guard their chastity before it even addresses women's covering: the instruction to men comes first. Of course, some Muslims conveniently overlook this, but many take it seriously.

Yes, if you're modest at job interviews, you won't get anywhere.

I think you can acknowledge it's misogynistic rubbish but also talk about how people ARE misogynistic and judgemental . So essentially, yes, you should be able to wear what you want BUT people will judge you. If you're ok with that, and want to fight the fight, then fine, but be aware that it might mean people and often other women, will see you in a certain unfavourable light.

I think it's ok to recognise that without agreeing with it.

It's not. There are modesty rules for men too. Topless in public is not considered polite, even for men. Some religious men dress modestly as part of their religion. Some churches don't allow male visitors in shorts.

It sounds like she understands what you mean by modesty, but you aren't explaining WHY you think it's important. The fact that you were taught by nuns suggests that you were given some sort of biblical or religious reason. But did you ever question whether those reasons were valid? Do you question it now? Or were they just 'rules' you were supposed to obey because somebody (a god, nun, book, priest etc) said so?

Its interesting that most people thought immediately of clothes when they saw that title. I was raised nominally Catholic and my family is Middle Eastern, and we talked about modesty (for men and women alike!) as not boasting or showing off or self-aggrandizing, being a gracious whether you win or lose, crediting others, and so on. I don't think my parents would have been happy if I dressed in revealing clothes, but...I never wanted to, which I guess vaguely stemmed from the broader idea of modesty?