To ask how much energy and thought you put into maintaining eye contact and thinking about your facial expressions in conversations?

ND. I don't think about it too much in the act, but I am aware generally I am exaggerated in my eye contact, facial expressions and body language (masking). People sometimes seem a little uncomfortable talking to me face to face. Not their fault, I know they can't put their finger on it, but I seem off. I am great on the phone, however!

That said, side note, I worked as a nurse (as in degree-registered) for a while. All of the above was differently received when dealing with vulnerable patients in their worst hours. I had so much thanks and love. The other nurses struggled to bond with me though.

I avoid eye contact completely NT although if I got diagnosed autistic I wouldn't be surprised

NT. None. Maybe a bit if I'm in a job interview or something.

I’m exactly like you op.
No diagnosis, but I know I’m definitely ‘different’ to other people, and I do have DC with AUdHD so…

I sometimes think about it but that's probably because I have a wonky eye so I often think they probably don't know where I'm looking anyway

I can never look at people's eyes in conversation without forcing myself to, and then I feel intensely self-conscious about whether it is right, or how lonk I should keep it up,

Usually I just look at people's mouths, but I often worry that this is wrong.

I think that for me it is as likely to be about social anxiety/depression/low self-esteem as about neurodiversity. And any preoccupation with labelling it as neurodiversity feels infuriating. Autism isn't just one spectrum. It is a cluster of intersections of several spectra. For each of these spectra (and as with any other spectra), there are going to be loads of outliers that are within the normal range or slightly outside it, just like people who are significantly short or tall.

By labelling behaviours we are usually just redescribing them, not gaining any insight in how to live with them. Regardless of whether it is described as neurodiversity, depression, low self-esteem, social anxiety, the advice and possible solutions would tend to be the same.

I recognise this eye contact monitoring anxiety from work place situations a bit. Not too bad though. I much more monitor my speech in how I come across at work because I’m really bad at saying things concisely. I feel I need to add detail to evidence what I’m saying and fear otherwise might not be accepted.

I think I can seem trustworthy and in command of my subject due to this, but it can come over too serious and earnest. It is annoying for those people who just want to hear agreement to back them up or want a decision with no explanation.

Socially I am far more self conscious of taking turns in talking. I am often quiet in a group of people talking and find I will chip in to react more than I will add the main content. If talking one on one with someone i don’t know that well, I am so paranoid about them feeling I am dominating the airtime. it’s hard to relax sometimes. My habit is also to try to show I empathise by saying I understand or I know what you mean. I can even interrupt or talk over them to show how much I emphasise. It’s anxiety. I try really hard to stop myself doing it. I am so worried about seeming me me me because of my self consciousness. Maybe neurodivergence I don’t know. I really worry about coming off as the boring self obsessed one.

None.

Love this thread. Ongoing issue for me,discussed in therapy as this whole thinking process and distraction of am i making too much eye contact etc sometimes nakes me so awkward in conversations. I now have a bit of social anxiety.

I've recently been to the GP abd have been referred for an ADHD assessment at almost 40 years old. Son is on the path to being diagnosed too.

Thank you for this post, I have read every comment as it was really interesting!

If I've known someone years and trust them then hardly any unless its an important conversation.. if someones clearly distressed even if I know them well then I'll obviously put a lot of thought into looking concerned and sympathetic.
I do that because I have been told when I just act natural I come across strange and cold. I don't like eye contact so if I were just relaxed and listening I would be looking away from someone... but I understand this reads as uninterested so I make effort to give appropriate eye contact if someone is upset or to anyone I don't know well.
I like people in general but I find interacting very stressful even though I want to do it. I do have to constantly think about my body movements and facial expressions and what to say..
Sometimes I can tell its gone wrong and I've not come across well.
It's very draining.
I've never been diagnosed with autism but I do think I'm autistic.
My daughter is under assessment for autism and so I read up on it. I really fit the bill apart from I do have a vivid imagination and can put myself in other people's shoes. I can tell what other people are feeling etc.. it's just I often struggle to understand how to react in the way they expect or would please them.
Most of my closest friends are autistic and diagnosed as autistic.. which is another reason I think I might be. I find it much easier to be around autistic people who are similar to me.

I think the overthinking social interaction can sometimes be a symptom of anxiety as well not necessarily only autism or even sometimes it can be due to trauma of some type that's effected you to be hyper aware of microexpressions and people's judgement etc ptsd or cptsd.. other things as well.
So it's not always due to just having autism. You know yourself best

I mean you're right, of course. It's really really hard to undo fundamental things you've been taught subconsciously from a young age though. I haven't got my violin out or anything, I don't feel sorry for myself. But my parents were very critical of me and it kind of did a number on my self esteem. I'm better now. But having a bad day today so probably not the most positive responses I'm giving out tonight .

I remember my headteacher at school telling me off for not looking him in the eye - it was the first time I realised it was a thing - whether I did it or not before, I have no idea, but I know he made me feel self conscious about it. I have (diagnosed) ADHD and PDA. I’d say that no eye contact feels odd and I definitely want some, but I also need to look away periodically. I don’t think I’d have given it any thought whatsoever if my HT hadn’t said anything.

The OP describes my process to a T. Constant, constant monitoring of my facial expression, nodding, body language, eye contact, when to make a mm-hm noise. It's exhausting and, like a PP noted, often takes up so much of my attention and energy that I have trouble focusing on what the other person is actually saying!

I'm gobsmacked by the people commenting that they just never really have to think about it. Although theoretically I did know this was a possibility.

I'm diagnosed autistic. I do really like people but by God it's hard work socialising with them.

The pontificating Bernards of the world need stopping.

(I mean, I know a wonderful Bernard, too, but I had a bad early experience with one…)

Always.

Do I look interested?
Do I look bored?
Do I look too serious?
Oh God, what did they just say?
Nod.
Oh b*gger, just interrupted but it was relevant and they are talking SO slowly.
Look less interested.
Oh, got to remember to call the GP.
Are we just being weird now?
Cat food! We’re out and they’re not getting salmon again.
We’re being weird, aren’t we?
I LOVE their glasses!
They’re bored.
I’m boring.
They’ve stopped talking. SAY SOMETHING.
No, not THAT.
Oh God they’ll think you’re dull and not want to talk to you because they think you’re awful.
Nobody likes us anyway.
Let’s just go.

Not diagnosed ND but I think there might be signs 😜

Yup. Very familiar. Sometimes I realise that I've been concentrating on one aspect of NVC that I've forgotten to check in with my facial expression, and it hasn't kept up with the conversation, so I'm still smiling but the other person has moved on from telling me about last weekend's fun and is now telling me that they are planning to sprinkle their mum's ashes on Saturday.

I have a diagnosed ND dc, and our entire family show strong traits of ND.

But isn’t it easier and more within your control to think ‘Do I like this person?’ You can’t do anything about whether someone else likes you or not, after all.

@PondUnderTrees - saying I'm going to have to stop there Bernard is a priceless give to have. I salute you from across the internet.

I’m always thinking but eye contact is not a big concern, it’s usually whether I’m smiling enough (or other relevant facial expressions), whether I’ve contributed audibly enough, whether I’m talking too fast, too much, too little, etc. I also tend to drift off so am always focussing on staying engaged. No diagnosis but suspect ADHD.

I'm autistic and pretty much do what you describe, although put a bit less effort into eye contact.

I love authentic people like you. If everyone was authentic, life would be so much easier. I care whether people like me , that's my problem.

Think about it constantly. Diagnosed AuDHD.

If I don’t concentrate on eye contact I definitely drift away. Pretty sure I’m autistic.

I'm super expressive with my hands - it's been noticed by people far more experienced in life than me. If my hands are moving about it means I'm serious about what I'm saying, even if it's humourish. And, god forbid, if I set my beady eye on you - it's so direct it's scary.

Not autistic myself (who cares) but great skills to have for raising an autistic child. And much as I wouldn't wish it on anybody it turns out that the young HT who permanently excluded my ds aged 7, coz you know bad parenting and behaviour, not his underway assessment for ASD has bitten that fucker in the ass.

Turns out he has not 1, but 2 ASD dc which not only clipped his wings but being the great believer in the state that provided him with a job that he is - had not one single iota of knowledge to get the best for his own dc. Sad fact.

If it was just me and him in a competition I'd be saying yah boo you wanker, but I can't as the failure of his own children to reach there best is nothing but sad.

None at all. I’m either interested in what’s being said, and if it’s being said by someone else I’m asking questions to elicit more detail of whatever, or not interested or actively horrified/enraged, so engaged in changing the subject or shutting them down. Occasionally by putting up a hand and saying ‘I’m going to have to stop you there, Bernard.’