Told my stepdaughter to "put them in the f*king basket"! 😔

She's obviously really struggling and possibly phobic about this issue so proper help is required.

Simple discussion, swearing and shouting are not going to solve it.

Other than the soiled underwear this was me at that age with my step mum, I still am a terribly disorganised, untidy person it's who I am, I try to implement routines etc but I cannot - I have been told repeatedly I probably have ADHD etc but honestly I'm probably a bit of a hoarder too, I don't even realise I'm doing it until it's too much to deal with and then I just bag, pile or ram stuff in cupboards to feel a little in control, my step mum was super clean and tidy and I know I drove her insane but the shame and anger that comes with someone pointing our your biggest flaw and insecurity stressed me more than the mess and made me feel so annoyed with myself.
I'm now a mum of 4 (SM to 1)who can see it from the other side and I wish now we had maybe just sat and each said how the mess impacts us as-in " on the days I am off work and want to spend time doing things as a family we sometimes find that the hidden mess means we have to delay fun days out etc which impacts everyone but I realise this isn't something you do on purpose so maybe a daily laundry call where everyone brings all the washing they can find to be washed will mean no more piles building up but if they do the sooner you say the sooner it will be sorted" and on her part an agreement that she will try - try is all she can do as a promise it won't happen again will likely be broken so just trying - also is she responsive to praise for dealing with the stresses of sorting the piles/bags/mess? I doubt she is doing this on purpose, I had 4 brothers and I was by far the most messy/unhygienic leaving plates etc for weeks, your stress and reaction was 100% warranted, I do also feel for her too because that age is just a lot of feelings and it's hard to keep on top of the way she reacts to the valid statement of you wanting the bare minimum of not hoarding mess - it gets better btw - I'm not by any means my step mums level of clean and tidy but by late teens I was back to less feral hoarder

This has been going on a long time.
If she isn't wearing underwear to school or wearing dirty underwear you would be the one getting the blame.
Tell her which day of the week you expect her to bring her washing basket down, let her put her clothes in the machine.
Tell her that at her age she should be putting her clothes away and not leaving dirty clothes on the floor.
How many pairs does she have ?
Does she need a bra and if so how many does she have?
Have you spoken to her about periods?

To the OP - please help this poor lass. As many on here have explained, soiling is usually a medical problem.

The issue of an untidy room is entirely separate.

I worked for CAMHS and remember vividly a poor young lad who was being treated for many years by a psychotherapist because of his soiling which she thought was because he had not been breast fed for long enough (God help us!) - when he came onto my books I insisted he was was seen by a paediatrician - and lo and behold he had impaction etc.

Please help your step daughter. Where else can she turn?

As others have mentioned I'd suggest taking her to the GP. For years as a child I had constipation leading to impaction and overflow (didn't know that at the time). My parents largely ignored it but occassionally had words with me about 'making sure I wipe properly'. I was too embarrassed to explain that stool was literally leaking out of me and I had no control over it so I would promise to try harder whilst knowing it was a promise I couldn't keep. I was never taken to a GP and now have life long bowel issues.

Soiling and hiding underwear are not normal at the age and constipation/leaking stool is really common in children.

@MyPearlCrow You obviously haven’t had a soiler. It’s not the same thing at all as a ‘normal’ teen mess/untidiness issue. There’s something behind it that needs gentle care. It’s not as simple as ‘when she runs out she’ll wash them’. She’s embarrassed and in panic mode. She’s not thinking straight, not least because she’s 12 and if her mum isn’t around there has certainly been trauma.
not everything requires bombastic parenting. Some kids are different and need different

Don't tell me what I’ve had and haven’t had, thanks. I had one who used to have shit stains on the inside of their shorts/jeans outside their undies. I also have one with ASD who was none too big on the personal hygiene in that area. Also had one who had period leaks from time to time. Then others, who I guess, you, yourself, class a ‘normal’🙄. Irrespective, the problems not solved by tiptoeing around and fucking spiders, lessons need to happen and sometimes that can be an easy way and sometimes it can’t be.

Agreed

Yes.

I was in middle management in a secondary school for some time

Unless there is some kind of a developmental issue, we were told that the reasons for this behaviour are usually one of the following.

Poor parenting and failure to teach proper hygiene.

Faecal impaction and/or a food intolerance leading to spurious diarrhoea.

A physical problem.

Sexual abuse.

I hesitated to write down the last, but we were told that children will sometimes behave in this manner in order to deter predators.

The last time I had to deal with something like this, the cause was faecal impaction and spurious diarrhoea. (This was an adolescent boy who had a dreadful odour.)

For nearly three yrs, the parents blamed him: "It's his responsibility to wash his own clothes." The smell was so bad that the janitor actually threw out some chairs, rather than disinfecting them.

In the end, the Yr Head persuaded the parents to allow a district nurse to speak to the boy. The problem was quickly cured and the boy went on to have a much happier social life.

...which all means she is very troubled.... this is what needs tackling.

But this 12 year old cant be left to her own devices, she's leaving shit stained knickers about, filling a suitcase with dirty plates and glasses, leaving wet clothes to the point they're infested with maggots!! This isn't normal!! This is well beyond a bit messy!

The central point here is not whether she is stroppy and uncooperative over laundry and having a tidy room.
It is the issue of a12 year old soiling her pants or being unable to wipe her bottom properly that matters. This needs looking into.
She either has a medical problem or is an unhappy lass. Both need addressing.
Heaping blame on her and making her feel worthless do not help.

She's not cleaning herself properly then, this really needs to be addressed.

She is the father's wife. She is the step-mother. They are indeed related. The same way my sister's husband is related to me. By marriage.

If the room's partly through being redecorated and re-furnished, try to arrange the room to avoid dead, cluttery corners and gaps. Try and keep the furnishing neat and efficient.

I have ND children with poor executive function and they're much tidier with rooms that have beds that either come to the floor/ efficient storage, but no dead space to shove/slide things under. Their drawers are in wardrobes that hide clear/ mesh fronts, but they can see what's in them. Their laundry boxes are open boxes- no faffing with lids to get in the way. Everything is laid out as simply as efficiently as posdible, and not dark crevices to accumulate micellaneous grot.

This won't be a complete answer, but it can help make the symptoms easier to keep on top of.

This is complicated.
There is a long running problem here that could potentially come from many different causes.

It could be triggered by:
Physical health issues
Self-care training
Executive function (potential ND conditions)
Trauma

The worrying bit is that normally around 12, children do catch up to being more self aware and interested in self-care but her response is to shut off and hide, both her emotional response and the physical reaction. It's likely that there is shame in there. I'd assume that you have tried to deal with this with patience before swearing in frustration.

To deal with this effectively, the cause needs to be identified.

Have you tried to acknowledge how she feels in trying to manage this? It's likely that external help such as the GP will be needed, but you need to know what angle you're going at it from.

Are there any other aspects of life that can help indicate the cause?

This sounds a bit like my daughter at that age, dirty clothes, used crockery, cutlery, I gave up, closed the door and pretended that her room wasn't part of the house! she is 30 now and her flat is very clean and tidy and well organized, so there is hope!

My teenage daughter does all her own washing. As she’s gotten a bit older she’s taken more pride in her room although it’s still not as I’d like it, it’s her safe space and I leave her to it.

We are all capable of losing it at times. Just apologise and tell her the truth that you are frustrated. However you'd like to discuss the issue and see if you can come to a compromise. Does that mean she loads the machine herself, have her own basket in her room, does she want to see a doctor with you etc. You say she walks away whilst you are trying to talk to her. Write it down in a letter and leave it in her room. Maybe get her dad to tell her that she needs to read it. For him to explain that she is becoming a teenager soon and if she wants to be treated with respect then she needs to communicate.

At school she must have to get changed for PE? If the school find out she is not wearing undies this will be flagged up as neglect and reported to ss

She won't perish for hearing the word fuck.
My kids would have simply disintegrated if swear words were harmful.
But you do need to get some sort of system in place to manage this.
Maybe her own washing basket in her room?

I would take her to get checked out by the GP to make sure she’s not got a medical problem with her bowels or bladder as that does sound quite odd.

Hiding them is another concern.

Has she started her periods yet?

Get her a laundry basket for her room.

Every day, go in and if there are any clothes on the floor remind her to pick them up and put them in the basket.
Or if things are being reworn then she needs to pick them up and hang them over a chair.

This needs to happen every day else she might get overwhelmed.

I would also say that now she is older it is her responsibility to help do her own washing and that every Friday tell her to put her laundry in the washing machine and you/her dad will do the rest.
This reduces the embarrassment of having someone else looking at her dirty underwear.

Swearing at her and getting frustrated was obviously not good as she’s obviously not intentionally trying to be a pain.

It sounds like she may be hiding or throwing away her dirty underwear and so I would focus on buying her new underwear.

My DD is ND and had a phase of throwing underwear away.
I used to buy a new pack of underwear regularly from Asda (about £5) and kept stocking up her underwear drawer.
It seems like a waste of money but it helped solve a huge issue that was causing her distress.
I also gave her own washing basket and gave her the option of loading the washing machine herself.
I hardly ever have to buy new underwear anymore.

Nothing snide or snarky about it.

if you don't understand 'projecting' look it up.

It's really concerning that she's soiling her underwear like that at 12. That needs investigating for a start.

Does she have her own laundry basket? It might help for her to not have to take it to a new place when she takes things off. I would give her her own one in her room, and then teach her to do her washing and give her the option of doing it herself or you pop in and take the laundry basket when you are doing a wash. If it's not in the basket it doesn't get washed.

No food upstairs needs to be a firmer rule. I also had dirty plates and things in my room at that age until my mum put that in place. It's hard to remember at the right moment.

Personally I would finish the decorating (including giving her a nice laundry basket) and use that as a chance for a reset rather than punish her with a horrible room that probably doesn't feel like it's worth keeping nice.

I think what you said is understandable and not unreasonable, but this needs a bigger plan.

Still should read "soiling her pants"