Leaving plans as a maybe until the last minute.

This is an increadible interesting perspective. I found it very helpful to read. But - much as I wish I could say I get it, but I’m still struggling to really understand. Do you not enjoy the anticipation of knowing “I’m seeing X at our favourite restaurant next Thursday” and getting to look forward to it for a couple of weeks?

It depends why they are doing it really. If it's just to see if there is a better offer then that's a bit shitty.

I say maybe to everything but it's because I have a fluctuating disability that changes rapidly. I can be fine one day and unable to walk/in too much pain to do anything the next. Every plan I make comes with the qualifier "If I'm able on that day". We try and avoid booking anything with non-refundable tickets.

I was supposed to be going out for lunch on Monday but when morning rolled around I physically couldn't get dressed so we are going to try again this weekend. Fingers crossed.

Is there any chance one of them/a child has some health issues they might be struggling with?

I have a few very old friends where we’ll often block out the diary and agree what we’re doing nearer the time…..if we’re eating out, or if someone is cooking, or who’s house we’re going to, or depends what the weather is doing if we do something outside etc but if it’s in the diary it always happens! Your friends sound flaky and not particularly good friends.

They are keeping their options open, while closing down yours. And also assuming control of what happens, and when.

This is not normal or acceptable. In your position I would start trying to pin them down by, as others have suggested, giving them a deadline to let you know AND HOLDING THEM TO IT.

@8isgreat

I can completely relate to this. I'm not naturally a planner. I find it stressful. I don't know if I've ND, never been diagnosed but planning things weeks ahead brings me out in a cold sweat and I put it off.

But at some point as an adult you have to move past this and recognise that if your inability to confirm things is inconveniencing and potentially hurting other people you have to hold your nose and do it.

It's one thing to not want to plan what you're going to wear to something nine months hence (as my partner will do). That much advance planning is faintly ridiculous and unecessary. But not confirming that you're going to meet a friend in a fortnight who needs to know because otherwise they won't be able to go is just rude and selfish.

@Tulipssndturkeys
Oh I completely understand, I know that everyone is different. We are a family full of people with ND, some of whom require planning, routine and structure in great detail. Family holidays are difficult as you can imagine!

I was just putting it out there that it isn’t always as simple as saying this type of behaviour is rude. It’s just to remind people that for some people with invisible disabilities, what the majority of the population consider standard adult abilities, aren’t always possible for everyone and it’s not a case of being rude or flaky.

OP if they say plans at the weekend, then you go ahead and make plans as suit you.
If they come back and try to dictate a specific time you then know they expect that you have so little going on, you will keep a whole weekend free just to see them.

Madness to make so little of yourself.
We teach people how to treat us.

Be unavailable, make other plans, invest in other people.

Don't allow your children see you so desperate for their company.

Take control of this.

That’s fine - that’s how you are.

we are all different - but not everyone can easily deal with last minute.com plans

I’m autistic and can’t bear not knowing what’s going on. I like to make plans so I can prepare myself and rest enough to cope with social interactions.

all ND people are different. We are not all like you.

some of us like to have firm plans and having someone say ‘let’s see on the day ‘ means my whole weekend is in flux and I am unable to relax as I don’t know if I’m coming or going.

Advance planing mean I can fit in all the things I need to do , see people I want to see and give me time to rest etc.

i won’t necessary think about it until closer to the event as I live each day at a time - but having things ‘in the diary’ is something positive to work towards and reminds me to buy food / cake etc nearer the time to be a good host on the day

not every ND person is the same.

It’s pathetic really, isn’t it? Grown adults who can’t give a straight answer, or at least explain clearly why they might genuinely be a maybe and when they’ll be able to confirm.

If they gave me a maybe I’d just take it as a no, in the absence of any actual rationale.

I think with people like this OP you can’t change them so you can only limit their ability to mess up your time. Never give them a whole weekend again. If they ask if you are free at the weekend, say you can do something on the Sunday but busy on Saturday (or other way round). Even if you are free all weekend, hold only one day/evening.

If they don’t confirm when you invite them a long time in advance, stop inviting them to things in advance, send a “hi friend, are you free this afternoon for the kids to play?” Or a Friday evening send a “free for a coffee in the morning?” Message.

just don’t leave them holding large chunks of your time.

@tootitoot
I ‘ve written about this before. Obviously I have no idea about your friends, but I am neurodivergent, ASD and ADHD and I absolutely hate making plans.
My long term close friends and family are all people who function on the same level as I do, ie spontaneity and the least amount of forward planning possible.

I read on here about how people like me are seen as flakey and rude, and that’s partly the reason why we try so hard to conform to what is considered to be the gold standard, planning, organisation, booking etc.
I fully understand that for some types of event, ones that require booking in advance or some sort of event where numbers in attendance is important information, then I need to do what is required to either confirm or not, but I still hate confirming. I do it, but hate it.

It’s not a case of waiting for other offers, for people with ND, we often only do one thing at a time, and therefore if you ask about whether I want to do something in 3 weeks time, and I have multiple other things happening in the run up to then, then if allowed to function as I do on a daily basis, I have to first jump those hurdles and when I have done the last one, only then can I think about your event.
Now I can give you all my focus, and most of the time I would then love to attend your event, but for you the time frame is too short. You can’t accommodate people at such short notice, and I understand that, because presumably you are organising things in the best way for you, and rightly so.

So I either say no, sorry I can’t make it, even though it’s not true, or I say something like , can I tell you nearer the time, and risk being called rude.

So just putting it out there. Many ND people can’t plan ahead, and it makes life difficult.
It does also work the other way round though. I remember feeling quite hurt when a friend could never find the time for me at short notice. She could never come out for a coffee without it being scheduled weeks in advance, could never answer the phone for a chat or drop by with the kids to play.
She made me feel that by scheduling all her life, and leaving no time for what I value in a friendship, she didn’t value me at all. I realise now that she probably couldn’t do things differently, just as I can’t function differently to how I am made.

I hate this sort of flakiness. Its fundamentally self centred, expecting people to flex around you so that you can do whatever you want whenever.

If I'm being honest I tend to simply stop trying with these types of people very fast.

Different opinion here: I’m a plan maker but my partner has adhd. Im
always trying to get him to firm up
plans with friends but it breaks his brain as he doesn’t know if he can do it on the day and doesn’t want to commit in case he can’t. So while I still get mad at him
because I think people deserve to know what the plans are, I don’t think it’s necessarily because people don’t value your friendship or are holding out for better offers. But you know them
best and can gage what they’re like.

I struggle to commit to plans because of anxiety, but I am very clear of that being the reason and would say no willingly if given a deadline that I couldn’t meet.

I could never get a definte Yes or No answer from my Ex regarding future plans, holidays etc. He just didn't want to commit which made everything last minute so pricy . Think he thought his job was super important.

Have a friend like this too . Never reply straight away , has to think about it . I think it's because she never knows how she will feel on the day as she suffers from IBS and anxiety about it. Gotten so used to it now that we reckon most things without her.

I'm not excusing this because I find it maddening but there are people in this life who hate planning and feel compromised by having to adhere to other people's plans and deadlines. I have a very old friend who is otherwise wonderful but is chronically incapable of committing. She will usually come through at the last minute but she is congenitally incapable of saying: "yes I'm free on Friday 5th I'd love to see you". It's always: "that sounds great let me check with [ex partner]'" and I always have to chase.

I genuinely don't think its a "better offer" scenario, she is just a "go with the flow" person and will always take the social option with the least commitment and hassle because she hates having to plan ahead.

I've pulled her up on it in the past and she once said having to stick to deadlines felt "controlling". It's absolutely maddening. It has the effect of making me feel like the junior partner in the friendship and like a nag.

I don't know what the answer is. If they are otherwise good friends you could say something to them? If they're not I'd honestly write them off.

They are being very unreasonable. But you can set out the rules: When a friend of mine does this I simply say "Let's do this another time when you have more visibility whether you can make it or not". Somehow she then knows she's available. Every time.

Do they ever arrange meet ups, or do you only see them when you make plans?

This too.

If someone said not sure to me and didn't offer a "may I let you know by X date", I would absolutely take that as another time.

I wouldn't be asking again though.
I don't do rudeness nor flakiness at all.

Very silly to be accepting such rudeness.
Wouldn't tolerate for a minute.
They can either commit by a date or another time.
You are really making little of yourself allowing them to be so flaky.

I’ve a friend like this. Every arrangement remains in flux until the day itself. It's maddening. They don't seem to appreciate I'm blocking off a whole day for a coffee meetup while they dither or have a lie in.

I think it's a combination of their energy levels, ADHD and their wanting to hold a finger up to the wind on the day and see how they feel. They've a tendency to lateness so I think it's also a way of not being late. If they confirm the meeting time only when they are finally leaving the house to catch a bus, then they won't be late!

If I try to set boundaries or artificial ultimatums they treat me as if I'm being uptight, dishonest or unreasonable. I think it's some kind of power play or test but I'm not sure it's totally conscious on their part.

I try to put my foot down and insist our meeting arrangements are confirmed the evening before. It doesn't always work. The other tactic is to have a hard end time when I have to leave, so if they are late they get less time with me. I've had some success with that.

Also have a guy at work who never properly commits 100% but only says a particular date "should" be OK. Made me anxious and frustrated as if he dropped out I would be fecked. (He never does though.) But his use of "should" irritates me.

Sorry this isn't very helpful - just empathising!

Just give them a deadline?

"let me know by xyz because I want to book something on the other day".

If they havent' confirmed by the deadline, they are not coming.

If I invited someone round and they said they'd let me know, I'd reply ok lets leave it for now until we can find a date you can commit to.

Your first friends were only a maybe, so you made plans with other friends - all fine. When the first friends arrived you shouldn’t have let them in, you should have pointed out to them that they didn’t accept your invitation so you made other plans.

If you invite them out they are either free or not, so it’s a yes or no. “We will let you know” means they are waiting for a better offer, unless they give you a valid reason for needing to wait.
Be less available. If you always hang around and be available for their “maybe” nonsense then they will always treat you like this.