MPs vote to decriminalise abortion

One law is unchanged - that doctors cannot organise an abortion past 24 weeks unless in exceptional circumstances - but another law IS changed in that by removing the risk of prosecution, women can carry out a diy job at home.

How ridiculous. How dangerous for these highly vulnerable women.

With proper abortion services you get counselling. These women will be popping pills often with no clue what is going to happen next.

It is going to be a disaster.

The point I was making is that this situation isn’t clear cut. No one on here really knows if ending a baby’s life during labour would now be decriminalised, or if the law will need to be made more complex to keep this an offence in some situations.

It is definitely a possibility so would need to be covered under legislation one way or the other.

And all this happened in countries that have already decriminalised abortion?

You must have some data on that.

Certainly a possibility yes. Women who end their baby’s life soon after they’re born (which does happen, so not just a wild hypothetical situation) can face criminal charges.

This could allow them to do so even a hour or less before birth but guarantee no criminal investigation, regardless of circumstances. Or if that’s not the case, the law might get even more confusing in terms of it only being decriminalised in certain circumstances (eg certain backstreet abortion methods only, only after a certain amount of weeks past 24 but not complete full term).

Your interpretation seems to be that women are now going to end their pregnancy during labour, again seriously?

Nothing is being overridden, the law is unchanged.

So your interpretation is that anyone purposefully ending their baby’s life during childbirth is no longer classed as an offence.

I feel that this will be controversial to many and not something I agree with overall. We will have to see what the guidance actually says but this could lead to more confusion and backlash.

Why are you thrilled? Why should we override Parliament's 24 week limit? It wasn't in any party's manifesto. It apparently is designed to help a small number of women, but it is potentially going to impact a larger number of completely viable babies, who can now be legally aborted. Of course no doctor can be involved so it all sounds highly risky. And what happens to the baby/foetus? There has been no debate. I am appalled.

I’m not sure if you are being deliberately obtuse or not grasping it but abortion is legal under strict guidelines in England

so termination of pregnancy outside of those guidelines is not legal

that hasn’t changed

the woman just wouldn’t face a criminal prosecution - there would still be an investigation and if , say, abortion medication had been used the supplier might face prosecution

Do you seriously think more women will end pregnancies full term?

All these what if scenarios are getting rather silly.

The law has not changed, women will now receive care and support instead of handcuffs.

It could be classed as ending a pregnancy and therefore a late abortion (so decriminalised in all circumstances), as the baby isn’t physically born.

We don’t know yet but it just shows how all of this may not be clear cut.

But that’s NOT abortion so what does it have to do with abortion rights?

Using potential high profile cases of women ending pregnancies at full term to say things have gone too far and make legislation even stricter (eg wanting no abortions after 24 weeks, whereas currently this is allowed for serious health reasons).

Not saying this is right, but I think it’s a real possibility.

What future abortion rights?

Not for me.

The woman always comes first because it is her body and she should have bodily autonomy.

It may well be that no legal action is taken, but completely removing the option to do so if deemed necessary could also be problematic and cause a backlash affecting abortion rights in the future.

By the time of the next election, most people won't care. Just like most people don't care about gay marriage now, despite the consternation at the time.🤷‍♀️

Out of all the things wrong with this country, late abortion is not one of them.

However, it would be great if Reform have it high on it's manifesto so we all get to make informed choices when we don't vote for them.

@Meadowfinch

The majority of the public support the current position. Only 8% wanted to see the legal limits on abortion reduced.

On your main point though, the majority of men under 25 do not support abortion.

Personally I feel a woman who purposefully ends her full term baby’s life during childbirth would need investigating at the least.

I believe saying otherwise would only push abortion rights back the other way further down the line.

Couldn’t it now be considered a late legal abortion as the baby is not actually born yet?

I think you are tying yourself up in knots a little and confusing things

A legal abortion post 24 weeks is carried out by medical professionals under existing law

A woman (extremely hypothetically) ending a babies life during labour would therefore never be legal

the woman would no longer be criminalised though but treated medically

A legal abortion is one that happens under the existing abortion legislation so no

would the woman be investigated, arrested and charged also no

Couldn’t it now be considered a late legal abortion as the baby is not actually born yet?

Most men I know support the right to abortion because they want to avoid the expense of an unplanned baby. In my experience they are keener on abortion than women.

So who do you think will vote for a change to the law? Not the majority of men or the majority of women. If Reform are elected and try to pull that stunt, they'll be chucked back out again as soon as humanly possible.