MPs vote to decriminalise abortion

sorry has the limit to have an abortion changed?

Does it matter how she does it? That was just one of several ways.

So is your opinion that abortion is decriminalised up until the point of labour but then it’s an offence again, even if the baby’s not born yet? Perhaps a woman doesn’t know if she’s in labour or for real not, so panics it’s a last chance for a DIY abortion.

Clarity is needed in terms of what is decriminalised in these uncomfortable but possible situations, however rare.

Oh the misogyny is dripping from some of these arguments.

Yes that the normal reaction of any woman suddenly experiencing stomach pain and such - not to seek medical advice when it start but to wait until you see the head then think - totally rationally and with malice of for thought- I’ll kill this baby

Don't talk bollocks.

And why are you ignoring the existing women's life?

Does this count as an abortion as she’s still pregnant so therefore totally decriminalised

no

A woman who doesn't know she is pregnant will somehow manage to inject the baby with something whilst giving birth?

Where do you get your information from?

Perhaps the woman doesn’t know she was pregnant so only takes action once she realises what has happened during childbirth.

I didn’t want to go into the specifics because I didn’t feel it necessary but as you’ve asked several times and believe it not possible, a woman could end her baby’s life during labour by fatally injecting the baby once accessible, using a tool to fatally harm the baby, amongst other possibilities. Rare but not impossible.

Does this count as an abortion as she’s still pregnant so therefore totally decriminalised, or a potential criminal offence because she is in labour which changes things? As you say, anyone having an abortion at say 40 weeks without medical need, isn’t going to be able to go down the official channels to get one anyway, so is there a difference between the two?

Basically it allows the pregnant woman to self abort her child up to birth and no criminal charges can be brought. But if anybody else assists in this they are liable to prosecution.. This seems very dangerous and certainly isn't healthcare. Sounds even more horrific than back street abortions,

Oh you are just being deliberately obtuse - I did wonder

do tell us how a fictional woman kills a fictional baby in active labour - that’s one you won’t answer

abortion law is pretty clear - any woman procuring an abortion outside of that law will not face criminal prosecution

as far as I understand killing a fetus in active labour isn’t covered by abortion law ergo decriminalisation doesn’t apply

but it’s not really relevant either

why not discuss abortion rather than fiction?

I can't really make sense of what you've written here.

Abortion is not legal, save in certain exceptions. That hasn't changed. All that has changed is that if a woman does procure an abortion which is not in accordance with these exceptions she won't face criminal prosecution. There aren't 'methods' which are now permissible which previously weren't.

You haven't said what a 'during labour' abortion would even be (because it doesn't exist). It's also completely incomprehensible to suggest that decriminalisation will lead women to seek to abort during labour, but somehow not encourage them to abort during the previous 9 months. Why would anyone wait until labour to terminate an unwanted pregnancy when they wouldn't face criminal prosecution for terminating prior to that?

You previously said a woman ending her baby’s life during labour would no longer be criminalised due to this change.

Now you’re saying actually if it happened during labour it’s a completely different situation, and therefore isn’t decriminalised after all. It would need to be one or the other.

Yes your child survived and that’s wonderful but your experience does mean a thing to other women making a choice

i I doubt either child survived without medical intervention- so actually, unless you intervene, premature babies don’t just survive which mean they aren’t ’viable’ without support

I’m very happy for you that your son is thriving, and so is your friend’s son.

But that doesn’t mean you have the right to dictate what other women do with their bodies

My son was born at 28 weeks. My friends son at 25 weeks. Both are now happy thriving children. They were viable lives.

Aborting below 12 weeks I can understand. Over in the case where a child would have a disability incompatible with any quality of life.

It's not about women's rights, it's about stopping viable babies lives being ended which degies comprehension.

A friend of a friend who I know a little socially has a daughter who had complications at birth and underlying health problems. After 2 months in NICU they opted to turn off her ventilator and let her go as she had such severe brain damage and was kept alive by machines. Except she wasn't. They said goodbye, made their peace and turned the machines off & she breathed in air. The parents were devastated. They didnt want her to survive with such a low quality of life. She's now 10. She had quadriplegic cerebral palsy, no intentional movement, tube fed and is a large vegetable. Her parents were not allowed to end her life at 8 weeks old when she breathed and it would have been far kinder... yet... we ate proposing to allow the ending of life of a potentially viable baby.

It is criminal to end a viable child's life unless for medical reasons. It's not about the Mum over 24 weeks.

Of ffs I think you just don’t understand but the decriminalisation only refers to abortion - as defined in abortion legislation, conducted outside of that legal framework

you have yet to tell us all how you conduct and abortion during labour

The legistlation makes perfect sense to me and many others. GB not News turn everything into a culture war.🙄

Amazing how they're always ranting about the "authoritarian" government, but think pregnancy loss should be a police matter.🤔

If that’s the case then surely the decriminalisation will need to specify more details about what methods a woman cant use still, need to ensure they aren’t later found to have been in labour etc or someone could still face charges for something they thought wasn’t the case anymore.

The law would need to be clear if this is an offence or not now

you don’t understand abortion law do you? Where in law does it mention abortion during full term labour? How can it be part of abortion law legal or otherwise when you aren’t talking about abortion!

You just don’t understand it but if procuring a termination before labour is no longer criminalised why on gods earth do you think women would wait until they are in labour!

you seem a tad fixated on some random woman killing her baby in the birth canal but you’ve yet to say how this works!

it’s really a silly straw man argument

if you really want to address the issue work to have abortion on demand with no limit - then no non existent woman will be killing a baby mid birth!

@TooBigForMyBoots

Exactly why there was no need to turn the settled issue of abortion into a culture war battleground.

The first case of a woman man getting a backstreet abortion that causes pain to a baby will send abortion rights backwards.

Killing a baby during the late stages of labour is not an abortion and therefore has nothing to do with this law.

Unsurprisingly the right wing ministry for misinformation GB News have been talking bollocks about this legistlation.🙄

for a small minority who kill their babies after birth and face criminal charges, yes doing this during the later stages of labour and knowing there is no possibility of criminal charges could be a deciding factor.

The law would need to be clear if this is an offence or not now.

Do you think that at present the only thing stopping women from attempting to terminate a pregnancy while in labour (and it still remains entirely unclear what that would even involve) is that they might face criminal prosecution for doing so? Do you think this is a genuine risk that is only held at bay by the fact that abortion has been criminalised to date?

Where is your evidence for this? Because if it's just a complete flight of fancy that you've pulled out of your own mind as a 'possibility', then I really don't think it's something we need be giving this much consideration to, and I certainly don't think it's justification for the criminal prosecution of women who have had still births.