To be unsure what neurotypical is anymore

No it isn’t. In the US support needs are classified to 1,2 and 3 which is a bit pointless and unreliable as that can vary throughout life. Think my dc has been all 3 levels.

The bar for clinical diagnosis of autism or ADHD or other neurodivergences is actually not low. It has to have a significant impact on a person's life - which is why even autistic people who have low support needs are disabled. And people who don't meet that threshold are neurotypical. That doesn't mean they will always find life easy, or will always feel like they fit in.

Everyone can identify traits in themselves that map onto neurodivergence. It's a much smaller group of people for whom these reach a level of "significant impact." Of course, some of those people won't have been diagnosed as children and for those people late diagnosis is so valuable. And people with low support needs still need diagnoses and support.

I try to explain this with me and my DH, who is AuDHD. I can be untidy and disorganised with stuff - I annoy myself by losing stuff more often than I'd like and wish I was naturally tidier. But he literally cannot grasp the idea that things should have places. If he puts something down, it's like it disappears. I don't love making unsolicited phonecalls, but he's sometimes so stressed and focused on the mechanics of the phonecall and the conversation that he can't process the information he's being told.

No but we do have a care classification of high, medium, low so there is a framework. I’ve yet to meet someone with high needs who didn’t have autism and other diagnoses here.

I think the autism levels may be an American thing? Level 1 = what was Aspergers (high masking, low support needs), right through to Level 3 which is profound Autism, very high support needs.

My (UK) diagnosis is 'Autism Spectrum Disorder without intellectual impairment'.

It's a difficult condition to work with and get people to fully understand, as it is so broad. And also suggests that you cannot really truly suffer if you are 'only' Level 1.

There is a common saying in the autistic community which is that if you have met one person with autism, you have met one person with autism.

Personally I have mixed views about the explosion of ND content creators, as on the one hand it raises much needed awareness, but on the other it can drastically minimise what it is really like to live with the condition and can gloss over the more distressing parts such as suicidal ideation, meltdowns.

That's interesting Iv never heard anyone on here or in life say a number like my child has autism 3.

I agree with this.

Well, the difference between ND and NT is, on paper, quite clear.

"Neurodivergent" is an umbrella term, and typically covers autism, ADHD, dyslexia, dyspraxia, dyscalculia, dysgraphia, sensory processing disorder, and Tourette's among other rarer neurodevelopmental disorders. Some also include mental illnesses under that umbrella, particularly lifelong conditions such as bipolar disorder, schizophrenia, OCD, and eating disorders; the conditions that seem to straddle the gap between "neurodevlopmental disorder" and "mental illness."

In practice, the difference isn't always so clear. Of course, many people are undiagnosed. Even more are neurodivergent but don't really think about it, especially those who have received good support for one of the more "situational" conditions such as dyslexia.* I also think a lot of people also see content online which is intended by neurodivergent people for neurodivergent people, and assume that because they relate to the topic of a few videos that therefore "everyone is neurodivergent these days."

When you see a video you relate to, it's important to remember that one of the common diagnostic criteria for conditions like autism and ADHD is that symptoms must be lifelong, and must significantly impair your quality of life. Losing your keys every now and then is one thing, but losing your keys several times a day to the extent that you're in tears over it? That's the problem. My autism and ADHD symptoms are not dependent on stress or fatigue, and they're not just something I have on an "off day." I regularly forget important appointments, or I'm too anxious about talking to people to leave the house, or I have to set alarms to remind me to eat, to take my medication, or to communicate with my family. Many of the videos people seem to be talking about are like those I see from neurodivergent creators, in which they are laughing about the funnier aspects or commiserating about the little inconveniences amongst an intended audience of likewise neurodivergent watchers. They're not showing their worst moments, in the same way I never tell my friends about my meltdowns; it feels shameful, and ugly, and private.

I'm having a difficult day getting my brain to work, so I don't think I've managed to express as well as I'd like. At least I hope someone gets something out of it.

*I know that dyslexia can actually have a wide variety of symptoms besides the well-known issues with reading and writing, such as executive dysfunction, working memory, and spacial awareness, and that for many people it is not just a situation difficult that only affects reading. I don't want to minimise that.

I was properly cross when a teacher told my anxious teen she “had anxiety”… no, mil “has anxiety” and it rules/ruins her life. Dd is an anxious person but that’s okay. It’s about learning skills to manage it. I want the person making aeroplanes to be anxious rather than cocky! I described it to dd as “if the works was full of non anxious people, it would be a sea of Trumps… that’s not a reality we want, some degree of anxiety helps us make judgements and the right decisions.”

And who knows, maybe you are just careless. For me, though, it was an issue even when I was trying to take extreme care.

I had a sickly pet, who I adored, and she needed daily medication that would spoil if not refrigerated. Naturally, I kept leaving it out to the fridge, meaning I'd have to go back to the vets for a replacement prescription.

I would genuinely strain to take care (since my pet meant the world to me) but, even, if I was repeating to myself, aloud, "meds back in the fridge, meds back in the fridge, meds back in the fridge", and/or setting reminder alarms, I would end up leaving then out.

When my DP was away for 5 days, so I had to manage solo. I spoiled 4 batches of the same meds.

I am exceptionally good at a lot of things but was just absolutely fucking abysmal at day-to-day life, even when I was trying extremely hard to be organized. I cant complain about my lot in life but I really wish I'd had a diagnosis when much younger, and do feel that my lack of focus has been a huge detriment to me.

This is already the case; autism is classified into levels 1, 2 and 3. Level 1 is usually what used to be known as Asperger's syndrome.

I have never understood how anyone can be neurodivergent if there is no accepted definition of neurotypical, which there isn’t. We are all humans who struggle, to varying degrees, with a varying set of situations.
A lot of the stuff about ND on social media is just nonsense though quite honestly, and quite damaging imo.

DS was diagnosed with autism 20 years ago and I find myself asking this question too. I'm definitely aware that there are those who really do struggle with normal day to day life and have seriously limiting issues. However, so many people I speak to nowadays lay claim to some neuro divergent diagnosis. Obviously, you can't even ask if it is a diagnosis, or they have self-diagnosed as that would be intrusive and rude.

I suspect that as so many neuro divergences are on spectrums, we could all lay claim to being somewhere on a spectrum and actually that is normal. It is nothing new that some people are highly strung, some people fidget and can't sit still, some are extremely forgetful, some over-worry etc etc etc. But now instead of just being individual traits or quirks they are diagnosed and medicated. The number of kids on ADHD meds nowadays is both shocking and terrifying, in my personal opinion. In 2024 the BMJ reported an 18% increase in ADHD prescriptions since 2019!!!!

I can't help wonder where we will end up with it all.

My OH claims my bank have a stash of pre printed bank cards for me. Recently got a replacement driving licence as mine vanished into thin air. I not have 3 lol. Given the newest one to DD to keep in case I need to produce it. Even managed to lose passport in Canada- fortunately it manage to follow me from Toronto to Montreal in 2 days.

But as I said I'd still consider myself NT . Just a bit careless

If it helps...

I have ADHD, which was only diagnosed a few years ago. Pre-diagnosis (and medication), I would misplace my phone, keys or bank card probably 5+ times per day (locking myself out of the office and needing to trouble someone to let me in would happen at least a couple of times per week).

In terms of permanently losing/misplacing something, I remember by bank raising their eyebrows when I needed to get my bank card replaced for the 8th time in a calendar year.

While I'm now much improved, I still haven't seen my debit card or drivers license in about 6 months, having replaced both at some point last year.

And, on top of that, stuff like leaving things out of the fridge, or leaving the stove turned on, with extreme frequency.

I'm still sub-par at these things when medicated, but feel more like I'm in the worst 10-25% as opposed to worst 0.1%. Even that improvement feels life changing, and wastes much less time day to day.

We've experienced the very best and the very worst of SEN provision. I started a thread on here the other day asking for teachers' experiences of training, and it was a real eye opener. Many said they have no TAs, among other things. I think the late 1990s/ early 2000s were viewed as a bit of a halcyon age by many teachers. But state education hasn't received the necessary investment over the past 14 years and is woefully under resourced.

Which is very sad. But actually not my experience when I was teaching 15 years ago. We had a decent SEN department in the school I taught at the longest, far better than anything I had when I was at school myself. I can, of course, only speak for only the handful of schools I worked at. At least 2 of them had exceptional SEN provision. No doubt there are many schools out there without as much.

But no doubt things do still need improving, if solely for the sheer number of SEN children now being diagnosed.

I personally only have experience of mental health OCD) but I completely get what you mean and my personal opinion is that if these symptoms you feel do not impact your life on a regular or daily basis you most likely do no need a diagnosis.

I think it is unfair for those who genuinely struggle and impacts on daily life to be made to feel like 90% of people have our diagnosis.

You can lack empathy, hate routine, hate change, hate socialising and still not be asd

You can have intrusive thoughts from time to time, like to be organised, have anxiety here and there without being OCD.

For those of us who struggle with these disorders every day it’s a kick in the teeth when everyone says they can relate

It is so bad now that most of my mum friends think thier 1 year olds have autism.

It still is sink or swim I'm afraid. Teachers don't have the knowledge or the time and resource for ND children in mainstream classes of 30+.

My opinion is the opposite of yours OP. I hardly see any ND people in real life,maybe there's more online because there's plenty to find there and lots of reels and groups etc but in real life I feel like the odd one out! I have friends who are ND of course (they all are) but I don't meet many new ones! I suspect they don't make as much noise in real life! I can tell the difference really quickly. Most people genuinally are neuro-typical despite the amount of newly diagnosed adults! My whole family is ND, as is commonly the way. One of my children is very complex and needs full time care. I'd love to know more people like us (though in reality wouldn't hang out much)!

I've posted elsewhere about gender bias in autism, but the same can be said of ADHD. Thousands of 8yo boys like this who "are just typical boys" who consequently fly under the radar until they fail to mature in their ability to exercise executive skills once secondary school comes along.

I have one of each. A dd with autism who didn't present like the stereotyped autistic child and therefore didn't get the help she needed until she fell apart, aged just 6. And a ds with adhd who was assumed to be 'like every other young boy' until he began failing at school at 14, despite being bright and capable with supportive parents.

givemushypeasachance

It is such a minefield at that age and with kids but now, looking at ds’ friends that are nd, it’s amazing how visible it is to me. It’s not known in the class that they’ve been diagnosed but put them beside a nt child, even a hyperactive one, and you can see it. I’m so relieved for them that they’re diagnosed, people talk about the label, but the coping mechanisms they’ve learned and the fact that when they come over here we know what they’re about have very much stood to them since we’ve known them

I don’t think the stigma is anywhere near as big as it used to be. It’s far more widely accepted nowadays to be ND and there is a lot more support than there was back in my day. If you were autistic at school in the 80s or 90s, it was sink or swim.

its interesting. I have ND children and I do wonder whether I have ADHD myself. For me it’s not just about ‘losing things’ (to use an example) but the extent and the effect it has on my life. Eg never having the same passport for the 10 years it’s valid because I’ve lost and replaced it 4 times. Phoning the bank for the 6th time in 18 months to get a new debit card sent out because I’ve lost it and the person on the other end of the phone being in disbelief. My whole life is a disorganised chaotic disaster and the worst part is I really really try. I try everything and it only makes a really small difference. I think some people can be prone to forgetfulness and lose their keys a lot but it doesn’t really impact their life too much.

Ditto children. My DC is autistic and it effects all aspects of life- he can’t be in school without a fulltime 1-to-1, he has learning difficulties and his speech is years behind his age, we can’t do many ‘normal’ things as a family as he has sensory issues and is prone to meltdowns. He has challenging behaviour and can be violent if not managed well. So I do struggle a little bit when friends say their child is being assessed for autism when said child speaks perfectly for their age, no learning difficulties or behavioural problems at school and they seem to be able to get on with normal family life the same as everyone else (go on holidays, out for meals etc) without much hassle. I know that children can mask and I hate being judgey but it just seems so far removed from what I experience.

I disagree. It is true that diagnostic criteria has broadened - thank goodness, given that autism diagnostic criteria was always based on the mainly male, mainly external presentation of autism until recently. Thousands of girls have been disadvantaged by diagnostic overshadowing and underdiagnosis. But I don't believe anyone seeks a diagnosis without experiencing pretty significant difficulties. The NHS waiting lists are too long and it costs a fortune for private diagnosis. There is also still a huge stigma attached to neurodivergence. Who would put themselves through it all, unless it was absolutely necessary? Those seeking, and obtaining, a diagnosis of neurodivergence are doing so on the basis of significant struggles. Yes, they may have passed themselves off as 'normal' (for want of a better word) until well into adulthood, but it was often at great cost to their mental health (addiction, eating disorders suicide attempts etc). The value in the self understanding that comes with a diagnosis for those who have suffered privately cannot be underestimated.