To be unsure what neurotypical is anymore

They do this already in the DSM 5. Level 1 to Level 3, with Level 3 having significant support needs.

Yes, you are right that I don’t want or need your “education“ (if by being educated you mean “agreeing with you”).

Pretty much everything else you are wrong about. Not accepting your perspective, or even thinking it is nonsense, is disagreement, not aggression.

I don’t care if you label yourself or not. I queried if it was helpful. If you were as willing to be educated as you suggest I should be you might at least want to ask yourself that question.

If I am wrong in my approach that we all struggle at some things but if we function it should still be pathologised, please can you educate me on this. Why it is only helpful to pathologise it when it relates to being ND, as opppsed to having “high functioning shortness” or “high functioning shyness”? why is your struggle that still allows you to function more in need of diagnosis than any other difficulty? Why does it help you to think of yourself as impaired despite the fact you can live life in the same way as the majority, but the same is not the case for a short/shy etc person?

And I don’t think the answer is in how great you perceive your difficulty to be in comparison to that of any other person, because as I’ve said you can’t compare it because you don’t know how difficult they find it (and given part of your argument appears to be “you don’t understand the magnitude of my struggle” you must at least acknowledge that you don’t understand that about others either). Given that must be the case, what test of impairment do you suggest other than “functionalness”?

Im genuinely interested and waiting eagerly but non-aggressively for you to educate me on these points.

I have absolutely no idea what youre saying here to be honest….The tone I get is that
”well you struggle, we all struggle, you have a bad day, we all have bad day…”. Its been explained in this thread and there is a wealth of information but “no you cant do something well we all cant do something…” is seemingly how you are looking at it.

From all of your rather aggressive responses (at times) on this thread, you are very against the condition being a labelled a condition and clearly have no want to be educated on that matter, which is fine thats how you are. No point arguing, ignorance is bliss.

I’m sorry, but what nonsense. There are NT people without friends. There are NT people who are “uneven”, even who - heaven forfend - have strengths (what an idea, I know). But this is your perception, and your perception through the lens of a diagnosis that may make you expect things to be harder for you.

You don’t know how hard other people, including people you assume to be NT (and you might be wrong about that. Even if you know, pandemic of under diagnosis, apparently) find things. You are assuming they don’t find it hard because to you they appear to do it successfully. But success tells you little to nothing about how hard it is for them. They may find it much harder than you. How do you compare? All you really know is that you and they are both functioning within the normal range.

This. Our child is ND and we get similar comments, where I describe a really tricky time we've had and someone pipes up with "oh my niece/nephew do that too! All kids do it" ... But they're not really understanding/hearing what I'm saying. I can spot NT families a mile off, because they are often able to do things ours can't, due to the ND.

No, I think it is you that don't understand. Struggling with life is not unique to ND people. Someone up thread used the example that being short makes some things harder. It does, but for anyone above about 4’6” it’s harder but not non-functional. The same is true of being shy: for some people being shy makes it harder to undertaken daily interactions but not non-functional. For a small minority it is so severe that they cannot function.

Finding things hard or really hard but still managing is just being a normal human. And this is why - the part of my post you ignored - I asked in circumstances of someone who is functioning is a diagnosis always helpful? You seem to have decided not only that you know how hard things are for you - which I’m sure you do, but also how hard they are for other people. You simply don’t. And being ND yourself tells you nothing about how hard another person finds things, how close to not functioning another person is. But because you have a diagnosis you may be focussing on things being harder (not even just hard) rather than focussing on the fact that you are managing.

You also seem to take umbrage at the idea that being “higher functioning” so you can manage your own day to day life shouldn’t be taken into account. But with conditions like ADHD and autism (and IBS or a sprained ankle for that matter) the treatment or intervention is literally predicated on how well you are coping. So if you are high functioning and coping, job done. Why do you need anything else? By all means if you struggle then find a better way, but if you are in a team of 10 and all 10 are coping but one is coping but finds it hard, do you really think all10 should switch to a system that 9 find more difficult to accommodate the tenth? If both can be accommodated, great. But if NT really are “typical” and so represent the majority, and you can cope with that, what is the reasoned, societal basis for making the majority’s lives harder? You are just making things more difficult generally, on the whole.

There seems to be an idea - and not saying this is what you say - that if all high functioning ND people were given as much support as severely impaired ND people they’d all be geniuses running the country. And I don’t buy either that that would be the case, or even if it would be the case that this then somehow entitles or makes it a good idea to give ND people that amount of State support.

This is how I feel about my child’s diagnosis. They have one significant autism trait and school really can’t get their heads round it, which has caused trauma to my child. On the tick box questionnaires mine and school’s responses were polar opposite except this one issue. With the exception of this one trait, all their other supposed difficulties/issues are only seen at school, not across many environments as I understand should be the case. And in any case, they’ve only questioned two environments.

Someone has mentioned about diagnosis rates within clinics, but the diagnosis did make me wonder whether the assessors had targets to hit!

I agreed to the assessment as I naively assumed it would lead to support for their issue. But no. There’s nothing.

It has also led to some ND adults making stereotypical assumptions about my child purely on the grounds of their diagnosis. Which I really find quite bizarre.

“Those impacted moderately may not know and/or may need no intervention to help them live day to day.”

woah! Thats not ND at all!! The “moderate” levels are simply those that are high functioning, high functioning in ND terms is still a huge daily stumbling block. Im high functioning but its a nightmare yet you would consider me, “moderate”….The severity then plunges most notably when we speak of Autism. Its true that some people may not realise they have something, like me for years and many others, they will spend every day wondering why people get angry with them, people make fun of them, people think they are “weird” all their lives having this….until either you have an opportunity to get a mental health assessment as I did (or a series over months) or you turn to addiction, usually alcohol as a coping mechanism or even worse, you try and take your own life.

Im massively concerned at the level of sheer oblivion there is on mumsnet to what neurodiversity is! It’s like going back 25 years!

I take - very gently - issue with a couple of things you say. With the greatest respect, ND is not some magic super power that just requires the right unlocking. It affects some profoundly and others moderately. Those impacted moderately may not know and/or may need no intervention to help them live day to day. Where that is the case is a diagnosis useful and/or a good use of resources?

You may feel that if you had been diagnosed sooner you would have had a more successful life. But some version of that is the same for everyone. It can’t be the job of the state to seek to elevate every functional, self sufficient person to the best version of themselves. You seem to suggest society would benefit from the “INSANE” minds of the ND, and that might be true but what makes you think that these qualities are unique to the ND? Plenty of NT have “INSANE” minds.

As far as I know I am NT. I know that there are things I find hard that if I had support with I could do better at and do better generally. But I’m functional. So that’s my problem and I’m failing to see any greater justification for intervening with functional ND people than functional NT people

“I think “neurodiversity” is a bullshit term. Everyone is neurodiverse.”

😳I think you misunderstand the definitions there.

Take your height example. Yes we are all different heights. Yes some shorter may struggle and some very tall may struggle for different reasons….but all will see what the issues are, be aware of the height problems and the problems that come with it…..Yes they get angry, frustrated, sad but its intermittent…Those are the neurotypical….The neurodiverse will be the short people from gullivers travels and the tall giants from BFG living in a neurotypical “height world”….Its not built for us, we are in a constant state of emotional deregulation trying to figure it out, we try but we just dont fit in, we fall in to things or get completely lost and overwhelmed! Constantly. From birth. However, we also see things different. We have a different view that neurotypical do not see. Its the same world but the views and experiences are very different.

Thats our world, you think whatever you want, in your world - it does not make our world any different. May be try and view it that way.

I had a training session on Psychological Safety at work the other day and a colleague said “I have autism so I find [XYZ] hard” and it’s something I see online too, often on MN and on Reddit.

I find that specific thing my colleague mentioned difficult too - it’s not a specifically neurodiverse thing. And it makes me think, does she find it more difficult than me, or does she find it harder to handle because she’s autistic? Perhaps I find it more difficult but I’m more able to control it? OR am I actually autistic too and I’m just good at masking?!

I do also think “I’m autistic so I find..” is being said more commonly now because 1- it’s more acceptable and 2- more people are being diagnosed later in life and so now have a reason for why they think/act a certain way, whereas before maybe they felt like an outsider or weird because of it.

She's saying the opposite. That while there are a few overlaps there is a fundamental difference between the poster and those who have the condition.

Have you read the report or the article? It specifically refers to the increase as a result of the increase in ND diagnosis in young girls who were previously missed.

I'm ND. I wasn't diagnosed as a child.

My DC is also ND. She IS diagnosed. She would have slipped through the net in the 1980s and 1990s. For sure.

I've done OK. Once you graduate, like a PP says, you can control your own sphere. And build in control measures to help. However, imagine if all the kids in the 1980s and 1990s hadn't had to take the harder route and start later once they had more automony and we had a system which allowed them to flourish with their contemporaries.

There are some INSANE minds in the ND community and think what we could achieve.

Read “The Age Of Diagnosis”. Changed the way I thought about this

She’s not saying that.

Why do people do that? Purposefully (or perhaps its lack of cognitive ability?) take something someone had said and completely miss the point. She is saying that she has things that she finds difficult because life is not adapted to people quite so short, but she wouldn’t class herself as having a ‘short person’ condition. The same way that a person might have traits of ADHD or autism, but that doesn’t necessarily mean they have the condition.

Wow so you’re dismissing a disability as being a bit short.

Trust me what my family are having to deal with is not akin to being a bit short. 🤔

I think of neuro-processing function the same way I think of height.

Everyone has height. I am 5ft 2 which is shorter than average. Therefore public transport, supermarket shelves etc are challenging for me and sometimes I need some help. It can be really really frustrating sometimes and I definitely have had periods of short person syndrome.

But even though I am little, I would not call myself a Little Person. I do not have anywhere near the issues that some who has achondroplasia.

I think “neurodiversity” is a bullshit term. Everyone is neurodiverse. I also think that because we are so academically focused it makes people very anxious at school if they can’t do something that other people find easy in class.

Actually real life is nothing like academia. No one cares what you get even in a degree, no one even asks me what my MSc is on they only care about my experience.

I want to tell Gen Z that they are going to be OK, but they are not as helpless as the academic system + social media has made them feel.

Um you do realise many getting SEN support won’t be ND and support can range from extra phonics and reading help to an EHCP.

@CheekyBeaker @Thursst0n
No. I mean data published by the UK Government about the number of children in schools getting SEN support and referenced in a BBC article.

The link won't work for some reason but the article is called "Record 1 in 5 pupils in England getting special education needs support"

I'm sure you can find on Google. Published 12 June 2025.

By "stats" do you mean "bullshit claims by RFK Jr"?

The actual number is more like 1%.

Care to link?

Maybe amongst the general population but did you see the stats released this week that show 20 or 25% of young people are.

When you get a diagnosis, you don't get a classification. At least not in England. We got DCs diagnosis about a month ago so I'm pretty up to date.

DC struggles because she doesn't relate to the other ASD kids in her class who all present differently. In her class of 25, 6 or 7 have diagnosis of ASD. They range from her at one end of the spectrum (what would have been Asperger's) to those who are non verbal and who need one on one.

Don't assume however that it's easy having a child at one end of the spectrum over another. Each is challenging in its own way.

@Thursst0n but all ND diagnostic categories are increasing, not just autism and ADHD. If 1 in 100 are now diagnosed with autism, how many now have Language Disorder, learning disability, dyspraxia, dyslexia, dyscalculia and tic disorders (including Tourette’s)? You've said that the ND diagnoses are still behind as well, so do you not think that it is possible that we will end up with more people being ND than NT? In which case you could say that it is actually normal to be ND.

Hardly. Only 1 in 100 are diagnosed with autism. If that was to increase to account for women getting better diagnosed and considering the 50/50 male / female population split even doubling it would in no way at all make the majority of the population ND.