To be unsure what neurotypical is anymore

I find this very, very difficult to believe, but if this is true should raise this as an issue. My friend is a speech and language specialist and works on an NHS team assessing autism. Every child getting an assessment sees a psychologist and a speech and language therapist at the very least and that has been in 3 different NHS trusts that she’s worked in. Many also see a psychiatrist, paediatrician, occupational therapist etc depending on the case.

Mu own experience is seeing a couple of different psychologists and a speech and language therapist between 5 different appointments. Everyone else I know that has been through it has had a similar experience.

No, NHS.

She was assessed by two nurses and diagnosed by someone she’d never seen

This is really simplistic. Autistic people will not have all the struggles that 'NT' people have because it rudely assumes that neither Autistic people or NT people are full of individuals who all have different personalities, circumstances, and struggles. Whether one has greater struggles than the other may be generalised but it is not true that all Autistic people have greater struggles than all NT people or that an Autistic person will have at least all of the struggles that another named NT person has. This suggestion is damaging to both Autistic and NT people.

And fyi, masking is also very common (and also mentally damaging when sustained) for neurotypical people as well. Not for everyone and in general not as much but there are plenty of people who have to or choose to (normally due to societal pressure) change their personality profile to meet a situation that they are in. This is no way takes away from what Autistic and other neurodiverse people face but it is narrow-minded and unkind to suggest that they are the only people who face certain difficulties as a rule.

Perhaps this is one reason so many people who may be 'borderline' seek a diagnosis - so that their struggles are not instantly dismissed.

Nurses can’t diagnose autism.

Was that private

This wasn’t my daughter’s experience. A tick box questionnaire for both myself and school. An hour long chat with myself (the written summary of which was inaccurate and needed many amendments). Two nurses spent half an hour with my daughter. I’m shocked at how inadequate the assessment process was.

Really good thread @rainingitspouring2 , thank you.

I thought a song stuck in your head was just an earworm and everyone got them!

I guess handwashing is given as an example because it’s one of the most frequent compulsions. And I don’t think people would understand many of the others. DH suffered for years and this was one of his. Though there were a few others which seriously screwed up both our lives for a while.

Have you read “The man who couldn’t stop”? He talks about how there seem to be waves of themes of intrusive thoughts. In the 80s/90s a lot of people worried about AIDS, whereas today worrying about Climate Change is more common.

Sorry if I was harsh. I get so annoyed with people using OCD to mean “I have neat handwriting” or other such crap, and I guess this is what the OP is getting wrt ND/NT.

Neither exclusively. I have to do a lot of managing of my thoughts about some things to keep them under some control.

I do wish people would stop giving handwashing as an example of OCD.

I didn’t say it was autism. Where on earth have you got that from? Are people unable to read and process things nowadays? You have completely missed the point of my post. Spectacularly so. Perhaps go and work on your cognitive skills.

I am sick to death of people not reading things properly and just flying off the handle about it. I was trying to explain that life isn’t always plain sailing for NT people. They also have things that massively impact their lives. I did not state at any point that a lack of confidence is autism.

I identify with quite a lot of neurodiverse traits and have only had two long term relationships with men who I now see are clearly autistic. My current partner and I have a DD who is officially diagnosed autistic and she struggles more than either her Dad or I do or ever did. I don’t think I would get an autism diagnosis in terms of the threshold and don’t need one. I have learnt to cope with things I found difficult over time. Her problems seem more extreme though and are causing mental health issues too. Nature vs nurture is often an internal debate I have. We have been much more protective and molly coddling with her than how we were brought up. It is never easy to know if we have exacerbated her problems and how she copes with her condition or not. Maybe having two potentially neurodiverse parents has made things harder for her as well, just not sure. I agree with the OP though, I don’t know hardly anyone who doesn’t have a neurodiverse child anymore. So where does that leave us as a society? Still a lot to learn and understand.

Well you are being ridiculously unreasonable. A lack of confidence is not autism. The bar is set high to get an autism diagnosis and it’s a protected disability for a reason. Autistic people have all the struggles NT have WITH autism and often sensory processing and ADHD on top. The masking you describe is hugely unhelpful for autism people and can often lead to big mental health struggles.

I have a friend who I know would not meet the requirements for ASD. But she is painfully shy and always has been. Her shyness affects her life hugely. It affects jobs, friendships.. you name it.
I have ASD and have learnt the tools to overcome my lack of confidence. Next to my friend, I am the most confident and outgoing person you could imagine. My friend just shrinks in social situations and in public.

NT people can experience things that can impact their life hugely. I think people get frustrated that ND claim ownership of the “it affects our life more”.
The reality is that there are NT people out there who do struggle and have to try and find ways to adapt to life, it’s not as straight forward that they breeze through life without the difficulties faced by ND people.

I actually think that it’s probably the other way around- the ND ‘spectrum’ is the norm and NT people are actually a relatively small group of people who don’t experience any issues navigating life. It’s just that people are now getting the confidence to own up that they have always found x, y or z a massive struggle. Years ago, you didn’t mention it and just tried to avoid the things that caused you problems.

I say this as a person diagnosed with Asperger’s (or it was Asperger’s back in the day)

Bear in mind also that Neurotypical and Neurodiverse definitions have for a very long time been based on Western thinking due to the majority of research and treatments being developed in Western society, due to available funding, academic research and dominant thinking/ ideas.

people with ND conditions tend to mask and compensate to align more closely with Neurotypical, which indicates that the traits present in NT are more prevalent in society, for example, ability to focus, ability to self regulate emotion, ability to network and make connection are all valued in society where productivity is a priority. In other societies these traits are thought about differently and different priorities prevail.

Academics and medics who might define ND v NT have to tread a very tricky path if their research is to meet approval as the risk of straying into pidgeonholing people, making lazy generalisations and discriminating negatively is high, with negative impact of their research being detrimental to society.

When you say “I’m OCD” do you mean that you have almost constant intrusive thoughts that are so distressing you can’t continue with your normal daily tasks until you enact certain rituals like obsessive handwashing till your skin cracks, or do you mean that you are generally a careful person who always puts their keys in the basket by the door when they come home?

Autism,is a huge spectrum
It some ways it was easier when they used Asperger's syndrome for some and autism for others ,as there was a bit of a distinction.
Some people say everyone with autism has the same difficulties and there should be no distinctions
Some people say ,someone none verbal and with high support needs in a residential home ,is not on the same level as someone holding a job down and having a family .yet both could have the same diagnosis.
Unless it comes down to masking for the one in the job with a family,and not masking for the other person.
I hear a lot of people saying that more people are being diagnosed with autism these days and everyone seems to have it ..
I think people are more aware now about autism and aware girls with autism don't present as boys do .so more people are being diagnosed because society is more aware generally of what to look for .
I've also heard people say it's easy to get a diagnosis.
As an adult going through the diagnosis process ,it was long and thorough and in depth,with 3 relatives giving information about me ,a huge amount of form filling and two interviews with 3 assessor's who all had to agree I was autistic ,this took 3 years on NHS
My sons getting diagnosed,took slightly less time ,with a lot of input and pushing from the school,but the same amount of forms and interviews and a panel to decide they were autistic.
Definitely left no stone unturned,and I had no doubt a thorough job was done all 3 times .
I was a child of the 1980s in school ,no talking ,no friends, silent or screaming and wetting myself,.I'm so glad girls like me are not being left undiagnosed any more

Do you also think that everyone who ever misspelled or mispronounced a word has dyslexia? Those are some of the signs, after all.

Misinformation? On social media? Nah, come off it.

I don’t know anyone who is NT based on what I read. Every quirk is a sign. Isn’t anxiety or trauma enough without a ND label?

I remember reading a study around ADHD stuff on social media. Only around 25% of posts were considered 'accurate' by experts. 25% were considered 'misleading' and approx 50% were 'subjective'.

Usually your SM algorithm is influenced by what you view, OP. I'm getting continual adverts from Curaleaf and other medical cannabis clinics atm (I read a few articles out of interest after a woman at work got prescribed it).

Most people I meet seem neurotypical.

Yep. It’s just more goady ND nonsense. The language used is a dead giveaway.

For me, my later-in-life ADHD diagnosis has been a revelation.

I'm naturally very intelligent (I've only tried one proper IQ test, which placed me towards the top end of the 99.9% percentile). As a primary aged child, I excelled, to the point where I had some involvement with the local university and had a contribution to a class draw signficant praise from a prominent scientist, before they realized it was coming from a 10 year old and not a physics undergrad.

As I went through secondary and tertiary education though, I went from being outstanding among my peers to "very good", due to a lack of focus. While my (still high) grades meant I didnt attract too much negative feedback, I did draw a lot of criticism in secondary for my perceived low-effort, and by the time I was at university, I was plagued by chronic insomnia and intrusive thoughts.

My perceived attitude drew heavy criticism at times, and I couldn't even understand why I had so much difficulty turning up, paying attention, or sitting down to read or write something. I got through with a combination of taking every possible shortcut (save for cheating) and short, concentrated bursts of studying.

Ultimately I ended up in a well-respected profession where I've progressed reasonably well, but where I had to make career decisions that required as little output from me as possible. While I could outperform my most senior colleagues in more cerebral areas (giving me a lot of value), I really struggled with "the grind" and had to be in-office for long hours, often 7 days per week to (in short bursts) to produce the same amount of work as my colleagues.

Outside of work, not only was self-care a challenge, and not only might I forget to attend appointments (or even important social events) but I'd frequently jeapordize my personal safety (accidentally starting numerous housefires after not turning things off, being one example).

I blamed myself for a long time, vowed to turn over a new leaf with such frequency, but didn't get any better.

Finally, a coworker said/asked - "you know you have ADHD, right?" and I ultimately was diagnosed.

With medication, my ability to focus and my executive function notably improved. Some things that I used to try to strain hard to remember (to the point of repeating what I needed to do out-loud, again and again), only to still forget, are now near effortless. I was able to discover and implement some coping strategies, and my employer made a couple of adjustments (making me far more profitable to have around).

I'm not complaining about my lot in life by any stretch. Other people have different struggles, some far more profound. Given, though, the vast improvements to my life since being diagnosed (and medicated), of course I wish it had happened decades earlier, and of course I sometimes wonder how things may have turned out if it had.

All to say, "pathologizing it" has been extremely helpful, in terms of improvement and mitigation.

Your "high-functioning shortness" example isn't a good one. A shorter person will understand why they have so much difficulty reaching high things. Their teachers and colleagues will not need to have it explained to them that their shorter colleague might have some difficulties reaching high things and that an aide or adjustment might be needed.

Your argument is more like saying that someone who has some hearing ability, and who can function day-to-day largely due to their excellent lip reading skills, but notices that they struggle in various other contexts, wouldn't benefit from getting a hearing test which revealed moderate-high levels of hearing loss (leading to a hearing aide being prescribed and some workplace and social adjustments).