In light of Montessori carer found guilty today of cruelty to think cctv should be in all nurseries

What others have said I agree with, but honestly I just don't think I could stand to work being watched all day.

i don’t think it’s the answer really. There are always blind spots you can hide in, all you’ll get is a false sense of security

who will fund them? I was fortunate enough to have an excellent nursery, but spare money wasn’t something they had. They put it into great staff

YANBU re. the title

However, YABU saying things like "I realise that any recording of children has to be kept away from paedophiles..."

Ridiculous comment. Probably time to stop reading Facebook and the Daily Mail

This was local to me, so a lot of coverage. I feel sorry for the nursery, and it's important to note that it was colleagues who reported her. It was a well-regarded nursery, and I don't think we should assume other staff were negligent. It sounds as though a lot of the abuse was tiny movements that could easily be missed by others - scratching and pinching etc.

I don't know about CCTV. It's useful evidence but it doesn't address the core problems, does it? My youngest and her GCSE-dodging mates are currently all being pushed towards childcare and elderly care, as the favoured destinations for 'girls who can't do anything else' . Don't get me started on the ways our society has disemboweled life opportunities for non-academic kids, but it is such a disaster for our caring services to staff them with badly-paid youngsters.

My eldest went to an inner city Montessori which was safe and non-plastic and so, so cold ("your daughter has been doing interesting work today with lentils and a spoon, Mrs Ketzele"). My youngest was lucky to go to a local pre-school that was actually set up in the 70s as a feminist project to support working mothers. It was a bit ramshackle but all the staff were middle-aged, it had long roots in the local community and was deeply loved. No pretensions, no fancy facilities, no interest in bestowing early academic advantage, no teenagers.

You can't just magic places like that up - there are reasons why it could work and not go bankrupt (mainly, I think,because the staff had often been mums there themselves, and also because it's an affluent area so I'm guessing many could cope with low pay and worked there for the love of it). And yes, they could also have got unlucky with a staff member, as did the nursery down the road. But I think older, experienced staff are much more of an obstacle to a potential abuser.

It's a good job they managed to stop her - if she'd have carried on, god knows what she would have done.

Be interesting to see what sentence she gets.

CCTV that parents can log on and watch?
Firstly, is it going to be more secure than top secret government sites that get hacked constantly? No.
Secondly, we've had many parents (Dads) that female members of staff say "talk to their chests" on handovers. How can we be sure that they're not logging on to wank at the sight of young staff bending over or whatever?

Lots of dodgy staff are out there looking after children because there just aren't enough good ones to go round. We need more staff!

I worked at a pre school years ago and had to report the manager on 2 occasions. The first was because she was neglecting a child with severe ASD and making her distressed and then she had a disagreement with a different parent and made a malicious report about witnessing them harming the child and also other serious allegations. The parent had a full CP investigation and was traumatised I reported and it was investigated but nothing was done, the manager was then out of control and just hateful to parents and children that in the end the pre school had to shut as they only had about 4 children left and couldn’t carry on .

Yanbu, I'm surprised it isnt already. Cctv should be mandatory for all people who cant advocate for themselves 🥺

No, not in classrooms as the kids aren't non verbal.

I’m just amazed it was possible, given the level of staffing with children of this age.

It raises broader questions about the level of care / interest at these nurseries.

And tbh of course all nurseries should be top notch, but this one is part of a well known education group with prep schools targeted at wealthy people… and this suggests their ‘offer’ is absolute crap really doesn’t it.

Yes, I said in an earlier post you wouldn't want it in changing areas.

I don't think it would be needed for family to log in unless it was non verbal babies or adults.

I don't see why there isn't. I would want it if my kid was there.
That awful woman did it knowing the cameras were there though?

Where does it end though?
Nursery staff and children have to accept being viewable by essentially anyone (nursery parents and any friends or family they give the details to)
should we have CCTV in every classroom and care home too and just make it all publicly viewable at all times?

I think what is needed is for everyone working with children to not be scared to report concerns. Even minor things need to be documented and reported incase they build part of a bigger picture.

too often people have a “wouldn’t happen here” mentality and let things go, or don’t want to risk rocking the boat. But sometimes the boat needs rocking. It could happen anywhere and everyone working with young people need to be aware of that.

I reported someone when I was in a voluntary role working with young people. My concerns were brushed under the carpet. The concerns of other volunteers were brushed under the carpet. A year later he was in prision for serious offences against children. I left that organisation straight away!

Why didn’t her colleagues report her?
One did, in June 2024.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/former-nursery-worker-child-cruelty-roksana-helena-lecka-b2770884.html

Absolutely shocking, she was hurting them for the sake of hurting them

Like Lucy Letby in many ways.

That’s what I thought too!

Except children have nappy changes etc.

would it be safer to have ongoing recording of little children to be reviewed by managers weekly to check what’s going on.

How much more per day would you pay for a nursery that had a network of cctv plus a manager that had the time to watch all the footage?!

CCTV is a really tricky one ….

as a member of school staff , I would be very uncomfortable with a system where parents could log in and watch- however I would actually welcome a system where classrooms where recorded , and the headteacher could view should an incident occur. I also think it would help with more challenging behaviour, if the child knew that eventually mum could see the behaviour in class or that they couldn’t get away with poor behaviour carried out when the teacher wasn’t looking.

if it was done carefully it could support staff and pupils…

What would nefarious reasons be for watching fully clothed children playing though? Like they could do in any park?
I think it would keep children safer if workers knew they could be watched. Children's safety has to be the first priority.

You're making nursery sounds like a prison block. My dc's nursery was staffed by a group of women who have worked there for 20 odd years, are very trusted and remain my dc's lives 8 years later. Certainly they have more contact and have had a better input into my dc's lives than any of their grandparents or other family members.

Exactly this.

What's needed is safe staffing ratios, ongoing vetting and evaluation of staff, and robust reporting procedures alongside investigation frameworks so that concerns about staff can be reported and - crucially - acted upon.