Some mums need to cop on!

I'm guessing, since OP knows that her daughter also knows.

I'm female and my mum helped me clean my student house. She helped me pack and deep clean when I moved house as a fully fledged adult a couple of years ago too.

Completley different if they've never been shown how to clean up after themselves.

I'm raising my children to notice chores that need doing and to be proactive in cleaning/tidying. But I'll offer to help them in similar circumstances too. I don't think there's anything wrong with wanting to make your adult children's lives easier from time to time.

To the mothers of daughters - I promise you I will not be raising my sons like this. They will go out into the world being able to cook, clean and take care of themselves.

I have a friend who told me her DH does not know how to work the washing machine. He is a very capable and decent man, I used to live with him years ago and found him to be fine, so i lost a lot of respect for him when she told me this. When it came up again (she was complaining how exhausted she is working FT and running a house) I suggested she refused to do his laundry and he wouldn't be long learning. She then said 'oh he might put things on the wrong cycle or he might accidentally put a colour in and ruin something etc. It's easier for me to do it'. She then revealed she lays out his clothes the night before for him because 'he wouldn't know how to dress himself!' It's only then I realised that this woman is really controlling and dh is letting her infantalise him, maybe just to keep the peace or probably enjoying being waited on too so he is at fault too. But she sat there complaining about him and bad mouthing him for something she has insisted on and controlled. She has a young boy now and I'm sure he will be spoilt and indulged the same way. I know there are many many lazy men out there but i think there are also many controlling women too and it's important to acknowledge that.

But I don't think it is.. in the examples pps are giving it's the mums that dont let the boys do anything not the Dads. That's the same in my experience. A kid knows the Mum will fuss over him and do it for him so he lets her. Sometimes he is berated for even trying to be better.

It's one thing helping as a gesture of kindness, another doing something for someone. I have so little respect for women like this and there are many of them, it's not just sons either it's their daughters too. Most young eventually cop on but it's hard for them in their 20s, they are criticised by flatmates and colleagues and finally learn the life lesson. As for men, well, some just look for another woman to continue the cycle. So as a mother we owe it to our future DILs and the younger generation to make sure we do not raise men like this.

That’s not at all what my comment says though, is it?

How do you know that she knew?

I think the point is why is OP's daughter with a man who won't clean his own room?
If I was asking any questions, or judging this situation in any way, that would be question I'd be asking.

What responsibility does the OP's daughter have to clean her boyfriends room?

Exactly... op is refusing to answer these sorts of questions. No self awareness

What are the weird opinions though?

I don't think anyone here has said they think it's ok for parents - mum or dad - to baby their teen/young adult. I don't think anyone here agrees that boys/young men in particular should be allowed to sit back while their mums do everything for them. Those seem to be the same as your opinions.

I think people have said they think it's normal to help sons/daughters of any age (and for sons/daughters to help parents) with things like moving house. That's not a weird opinion, is it?

People have challenged you for blaming mums, but not dads. And they've asked why your daughter, who you've raised to be independent and capable, is with this young man that you think is so useless. Are those the weird opinions?

'Some weird opinions on here 🤣'
'Weird responses' meaning people who have a different opinion to you.

'hey ho it does explain how there are so many men so totally unprepared for having a relationship on an equal footing with a partner. And yes I do blame his mother in part.'
All men are useless and it's all your fault, boy mums!

How you have got all of this from one mother helping her adult son clean his university accommodation is the weirdest thing.

So then we can blame you for raising a daughter who finds this attractive?
Your daughter enjoyed a “last night” out with her boyfriend while his mummy cleaned his bedroom. It sounds like your standards haven’t been passed onto your daughter despite your elite parenting.

@coffeegirl73 why is your daughter with this man? Have you not passed on your high standards to her? She seems to have taken up with someone who is completely the opposite of someone you would approve of

Yes to helping friends too.

I think that one big thing missing from society today is community. I am all for teaching my son that if help is needed with something, help should be offered. Learning to take care of the people we love is as important as teaching him to be independent and capable as a grown up.

Although, in OP defence, if I’ve read rightly and the son buggered off leaving his mum to it, that’s not ok. If my son tried that I’d laugh at him and hand him the hoover.

I always did this for my son. Cleaned every uni room. Then cleaned every room when he moved into shared houses. Not regularly but the first clean. And traveled to do it. Ridiculous. I need my own house cleaned. Did it until he was late 20s I think.

I think most adult kids would do it the other way around and help their parents move too!

Even some of our friends are asking to let them know if we need help when we move. It’s completely normal.

Why should she need to be defended. Are you comfortable with the help you give your daughter? If you are why are you worried about what other people choose to do?

There absolutely is a difference between helping and enabling, couldn’t agree more.

I grew up watching my Uncle regularly telephone my Nana to get my Grandad (when he had moved out and had kids of his own) to drive to the Co-op, buy him a chocolate milkshake, and drop it round. Bearing in mind they all lived a few roads apart and a 2 min walk to the shop. My Grandad hated it, he wasn’t lazy himself, but my Nana would guilt trip him into doing it. I watched all this from age 6 thinking how is my Uncle so awfully lazy? Why are they enabling this? Just walk to the shop?

I would be embarrassed if I raised children who even thought it was acceptable to be that lazy and ask in the first place.

Since I went to uni I’ve wanted a relationship with my own Mum based on us being equal adults, best friends. I interact with her because I enjoy talking to her, going to the cinema, spending time together. I would hate for her to think I only call/visit because I want something.

She of course will help me, but I only ask when I actually need it in an emergency E.g. could you collect my son from school as you happen to be off work & my baby is vomiting all over me? If not, no probs, I’ll just ask my neighbour/another Mum/go and hope for the best! I of course help her too, eg walking her dog and shopping when she broke her ankle, feeding her cats when on holiday. These are legitimate asks for help.

I moved out to uni then with DH in my early ‘20s and have never needed help with day-to-day cleaning/packing/laundry/gardening. I would never have dreamed of asking my poor Mum to clean my uni room! My siblings would though, and she had more than enough to do cleaning up after them for years as adults, so I’ve always tried to ask little to compensate for their laziness. I did ask my brother to help my DH shift some very heavy bookcases after shifting as much as I could myself first. I’d help him out with his pets whilst on hol, not his day-to-day cleaning!

A lot of ‘help’ asked for/demanded is not necessary at all. It infantilises people and makes them believe they are incompetent. I want my children to grow up knowing how capable they are and be able to function fully as adults. I don’t want they to stay trapped as demanding, spoilt children/teenagers and never grow up.

Help should also be requested not demanded/assumed, fully appreciated and thanks expressed for if given.

Amen to this. I have a son the same age and I’ll help him all day long if he asks me to. It’s not babying, it’s being a loving and supportive mum.

He knows how to cook (better than me!) clean and is more than competent, but moving out and doing a deep end of tenancy clean is hard work! And yes, I drive 3 hours there and back to help him.

I "operate" by not blaming women for the uselessness of men.

It's just none of your business what this mother and her son do (unless it is affecting your daughter which it doesn't appear to be). Cleaning his room isn't 'doing everything' for him. He is living independently, studying at university. Quite a lot of responsibility, there. For all we know, this woman might have a daughter that she's done the same thing for. Or maybe there are other mums and dads in the world that turn up to help their daughters with end of term cleaning and packing (come to think of it, 2 of my friends have done this for their daughters!).

I think you are projecting your own feelings about 'useless men' onto this situation and your daughter. I suspect (and hope) that your daughter is well aware and used to this, though.