To find it sad that privately educated actors dominate telly/film?

Artists can't starve in garrets any more, because even the tiniest, coldest garret is marketed as a studio flat and costs a bomb.

I saw it advertised yesterday looks good. It sent me down the rabbit hole of the Mitford sisters they were an absolute riot😀

As a young teen I attended a theatre school for young actors. Even then (late 80s), it was tough for those of us without money and parental support. My family's situation was more precarious than most as my Mum was severely mentally ill, meaning I became the household 'adult,' even though I was still a child myself. Simple things were an issue, like getting to and from the theatre on public transport, often as a lone female after dark. We had to buy our own costumes for performances and were required to sell a certain number of tickets to family and friends for shows. When you're on the breadline, as we were, these issues seem impossible to overcome. Rehearsals and performances took place in the evenings and at weekends, meaning that alongside school it wasn't possible to get a part time job. I ended up leaving so I could work and pay my way through sixth form. I don't regret my decision, but it had nothing to do with my acting talent (or lack of it!) and everything to do with practical obstacles. Unfortunately I don't imagine that things will have improved for working class actors since then.

My DS was not privately educated, but we have provided a financial cushion for him as he has made his way in the creative world. He is now just self supporting at 23. There is no way he would have made it without our financial help.

Unfortunately, it's the same for many careers where it helps enormously to have a financial cushion, particularly in the early years (those that require free/very low paid internships, training periods or 'buy in' capital). If you come from money, it's easier to take career risks, not to mention the benefit of your own and your family's social circle in terms of networking/introductions to those that can help in your career. Of course it's not impossible for those who are brave, passionate, skilled and willing to sacrifice a lot to follow their dreams...but the reality is that very few of us are like that.

From my experience of working in schools with large numbers of children on free school meals, most parents do provide their children with breakfast. I have no idea if it is healthy but as I grew up on Frosties for breakfast, I’m in no position to judge.

I suspect it is a way of easing the financial burden on parents (undoubtedly cost of living is tough on most people) without upping the welfare bill. It also makes the government look like they are spending money on education and helps hide the fact they have no education policy.

It's true that those from less advantaged backgrounds wouldn't be able to pay London rents or cope with sporadic work and unstable income. However, the barriers start well before that stage.
Theatre tickets are too highly priced for anyone from such background to be able to take their kids, and vast majority in London or city centres, so those elsewhere don't have opportunity without additional transport costs. Schools have cut drama provision so such kids won't have chance to even try.
If despite this they have an interest and talent, youth theatre groups may exist for them and be affordable, but the one near us is quite expensive and all middle class kids with professional, quite well off parents. NYT and similar are accessible but they need to find out things like this exist.
Then, if they've got that far, they need to pay ££ (and/or navigate complex bursary processes) to apply for, audition, and travel to drama schools which are mainly in south east. Overnight stays and rail fares from all over UK to several schools is £100s.
Then if they get in, there's everything they need to buy on the kit list, equipment, dance shoes, etc.
These are all barriers before that decision about actually choosing it as a career.

Performing Arts has been talked down and devalued for years now. Remember the Con Gov advert about ballet dancer retraining to be a computer programmer??

There is also a huge SE/rest of country divide here. Notice all the private schools listed above are in the South. And stage and screen investments need to be made elsewhere in UK, not just London. Arts Council and Lab Gov I think are taking steps to address this.

@Neemie It’s a bit off topic but since it’s been mentioned, I have to say although I’m fairly left leaning I do worry if parents are unable to provide a healthy breakfast for kids.
What does that say about the state of affairs?

That either means wages/benefits are far too low, or food is too expensive, they are clueless about what food to buy or they’re just feckless and irresponsible. Or any combination of the above. 🤷🏻‍♀️

Something is deeply wrong and the breakfast clubs may just be a sticking plaster for this.

I have been working in state schools for many years in both deprived areas and not so deprived areas, so I don’t think I’m totally out of touch. It is just a snapshot though.

You are probably right that I am snobby about education as do I think the government’s education policy should be about education. Breakfasts are a welfare policy and should come out of that budget.

Anyway, you think success in performing arts is about wealth, not education, so this is all a bit irrelevant.

I saw Danny Dyer in something like Silent Witness when he was probably about 13, so he may not have been privately educated but I’m guessing he had private drama lessons and very supportive parents.

Well I don’t know about you but I could not have afforded to take a risk on a career like acting when you don’t know when you’ll next get a paid job and pretty much have to live in London.

A list below gathered from various articles:
Eddie Redmayne (Eton) Benedict Cumberbatch (Harrow), Dominic West (Eton) Damian Lewis (Eton), Tom Hiddleston (Eton), Henry Cavil (Stowe) Jamie Campbell Bower (Bedales), Tom Hardy (Reed) Matthew Goode (Exeter) Dan Stevens (Tonbridge) Andrew Garfield (City of London Freeman School) Josh O' Connor (St Edwards, Cheltenham) Alex Lawthers (Churchers College)

Rosamund Pike (Badminton) Alice Eve (Bedales), Juno Temple (Bedales) Carey Mulligan (Woldingham)Kate Beckinsale (Godolphin and Latymer) Imogen Poots (Latymer) Emilia Clarke (St Edward's) Emily Blunt (Hurtwood House) Rebecca Hall (Roedean) Anya Taylor Joy (Queen's Gate School) Florence Pugh (St Edward's School) Emma Corrin (Woldingham School) Phoebe Dynevor (Cheadle Holme School)

There will always be some people who make it - there are outliers in every statistical range. This doesn't change the fact the number of privately educated people in the performing arts and many other areas of life, does not reflect the proportion of people who are privately educated in the general population. Money gives you more choices.

It will probably be true in other fields, too. I am not in the field I wanted to be in when I was a teenager, mainly because I had to keep a roof over my head and needed to earn money. My parents couldn't afford to fund me through the masters degree it would have required, and there were very few funded places. I would never have been in the public eye, had I taken that path, and there are probably loads of other people in similar situations, and they just have an interest in the field, as a hobby, reading books, watching podcasts on it, maybe some volunteering, that sort of thing.

@ProudAuntie3 Congrats on your niece’s achievements. And while I’m not asking any more questions on her situation in particular it’s worth remembering in this discussion that many are still affluent without necessarily being privately educated.

So “not privately educated” doesn’t tell us everything - and to be clear I’m not asking you to tell us anything more. It’s more a general point.

As I said upthread, my former actor flatmate wasn’t privately educated but her family were rich and she was massively financially privileged having got significant help in buying and maintaining a flat in London when she was in her mid 20s despite not working full-time. She did agency TA work a few times a week so she’d work 9am to 3pm on her working days which left her plenty of time to do auditions. The money she earned from renting out her spare room to people like me, and significant top ups from her parents meant she could afford to pay the mortgage on low wages

I know a “not privately educated 25 year old aspiring author” with a huge trust fund that means she’s never had to work so far in her life.

Wow! I am so looking forward to this.

Me too, OP and ditto most areas of the arts. my good friend is a lecturer at a UAL university and he said all the students are incredibly privileged and it’s so rare for any working class kids to apply as it’s not a sustainable career path unless you have money / parents to support you.

My niece has just had her big break playing one of the Mitford sisters in the upcoming series Outrageous. She is however genuinely talented and won a Laurence Olivier scholarship, she wasn’t privately educated, these two bits of information about her are readily available online. Which are the only pieces I’m willing to relate.

You are probably right, but I listened to an interview with Danny Dyer the other day on Radio 4 and he made it. As did the Lion King guy who was also interviewed on R4 I think he is also deaf. Which is something else to overcome.

He warned: “You’re going to have to put up with the unemployment – you’re gonna have to put up with the rejection – and that’s going to be doubled if you’re from a working-class background, ethnic minority etc.”
Eccleston said he would “keep banging on” about the promise of a new theatre in Oldham.
Social media users praised Eccleston for drawing attention to the closure and stressing the negative effect it could have.
“God bless Christopher Eccleston for refusing to offer soothing platitudes about the forgotten north, class and race bias, the establishment chokehold on the arts, ingrained elitism, you name it. Go get ‘em!” one listener wrote.

Wise words by Eccleston. Love the honesty. This article seems to be a summary of a radio interview - I wish I could find the whole interview.

Far easier for those financed by family to stick it out.
Hard to live in london on a struggling actors wage.

I think it is a huge factor.
Several of my friends children are interested in acting and they have all but one been privately educated and are comfortably off and ready to finance them.

They are well off but not multiple millions rich.
It will cost them.

This is the organisation I mentioned earlier.

https://www.arts-emergency.org/

It is probably because to excel in that field you need to go to a drama school for secondary, majority of which are private, the government seem to have difficulty funding mainstream schools to a decent standard, imagine them funding drama schools etc they would be awful and there would be public backlash.

UK produce fantastic talent, University of the Arts is a World class institution

https://www.theguardian.com/culture/2023/apr/01/christopher-eccleston-impossible-for-me-to-become-an-actor-today

As other posters have said, it is very much about money -especially in the early stages of trying to get a break. The cost of rent - especially in London- has spiralled up and so waiting tables when you can and spending days auditioning is no longer viable. It is true that those who have been privately educated are more likely to have families who can afford to ‘ bank roll’ them when they have no work. And it is very competitive. Difficult to see how that can change.
I am involved in a local drama group and we have lots of members now who went to drama school -whereas 20 years ago we only had a couple. Does mean that the standard is very high - so worth checking out your local drama group and support those still living their dream - even if it’s a week’s run here and there 😊

Quite honestly, it can be as simple as noticing that they sound extremely well-spoken, which is often an indication of wealth and in particular of private education.

This may be an uncomfortable fact, as no doubt it is linked to class. Depending on your own accent, it may be less noticeable for you.

Noticing something and wondering about it is not an obsession.

I dare say, that after this thread, you may be more likely to notice it yourself.