Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Thread gallery
19
OpheliaWasntMad · 15/06/2025 20:54

Fetaface · 15/06/2025 20:52

Exactly and on here people want to ignore that as it was ignored by society because they aren't the 'right colour victims'.

What on earth are you talking about?
Surely the one thing we all agree on is that all girls should be protected from sexual abuse ?
Stop making ludicrous accusations of racism left, right and centre

Fetaface · 15/06/2025 20:52

miraxxx · 15/06/2025 20:45

They were kaffir sluts? Ask Hindu and Sikh communities about how their girls were targetted.

Exactly and on here people want to ignore that as it was ignored by society because they aren't the 'right colour victims'.

miraxxx · 15/06/2025 20:51

Fetaface · 15/06/2025 18:51

Grand - so what are you diagnosing me with?

Dared to speak about white men disorder? Yeah you seem to have an issue with me saying that white men in the UK hate women and are not held to account and if anyone does they are labelled as mental which you just proved me correct.

This is not aggression sorry but you need to learn what that means if you think me disagreeing with you and calling you out as a liar is aggression! - you have no idea then clearly that me disputing that you are lying about me and falsely labelling me and acting as an abuser is not aggression.

Of course I will get defensive when you try and pretend I am mental to silence me and then pretend I am doing nothing all the while I have helped many many CSE victims so yes I will defend that.

I don't buy your bullshit for one second. Fuck off with your screeching.

Fetaface · 15/06/2025 20:49

MrsSunshine2b · 15/06/2025 20:43

@Fetaface due to the fact your writing suggests English is a second language and your lack of knowledge about white British culture, I am wondering if you are from the Pakistani community yourself and are trying to protect your community? I can understand that motivation but it's really not helpful to the victims. If more of the wives/ sisters/ mothers of the perpetrators had spoken out and challenged this behaviour it might not have gone on as long as it has.

There are lots of white sex offenders. They are deplorable. They are shunned in British culture so much that they are kept on separate wings in prisons, because the other prisoners will kill them if they can.

This thread is about a very specific type of grooming gang. These gangs were/are composed nearly entirely of Pakistani men. It needs to be addressed that somehow large groups of men were working together to exploit children, with apparently no challenge from inside or outside their community.

If culture, fear of being labelled racist, or anything else related to ethnicity played a part in how it happened, we need to know.

With regards to white British men hating women, some do but it's not universal at all. Misogynist behaviour is illegal in workplaces here and socially unacceptable in any decent group of people. Your comment about men telling women how to dress- I've been told I should cover up once in my life. By a Pakistani man who thought it was acceptable to approach me on the street and then told my husband he should make me cover up! My white husband was disgusted and we both told him his behaviour was completely unacceptable in Britain.

Nope I am white British but have a communication disability so by all means mock away.

You mean because I am calling men in my own community that you cannot believe a white person would do that and therefore I must be pakistani to focus on ensuring that ALL the rapists are held to account.

The white British sex offenders are largely let go because the CPS admit they do this to fudge data but hey that is derailling so cannot talk about that but you might want to look into it, most sex offenders who are white are not held to account. You are very much mistaken.

Nope the thread is about grooming gangs not just one kind or else you are supporting the others who you choose to ignore because you do not want to accept that it is men within your community and likely men you know.

So you've not seen the comments on school girls and their skirts then have you? Girls at 4 years old get told to cover up by putting shorts on under their skirts to control male behaviour.

Misogyny is socially acceptable and celebrated.

You say it is not helpful to victims yet you want to ignore most victims because they were victims of white rapists and that isn't what you want to hear about because that is ok, right?

OpheliaWasntMad · 15/06/2025 20:46

MiloMinderbinder925 · 15/06/2025 20:42

It's more likely that they were easy targets. These were sexual predators and paedophiles, I doubt they'd turn down opportunities due to skin colour.

You might be correct. I just want it all investigated. I just want an objective and transparent report that will tell the truth about how and why these girls were failed so terribly.
If race is an element I don’t want it covered up .
I want the whole thing out in the open .

miraxxx · 15/06/2025 20:45

Fetaface · 15/06/2025 20:38

What made them see brown girls as an easy target?

They were kaffir sluts? Ask Hindu and Sikh communities about how their girls were targetted.

MrsSunshine2b · 15/06/2025 20:43

@Fetaface due to the fact your writing suggests English is a second language and your lack of knowledge about white British culture, I am wondering if you are from the Pakistani community yourself and are trying to protect your community? I can understand that motivation but it's really not helpful to the victims. If more of the wives/ sisters/ mothers of the perpetrators had spoken out and challenged this behaviour it might not have gone on as long as it has.

There are lots of white sex offenders. They are deplorable. They are shunned in British culture so much that they are kept on separate wings in prisons, because the other prisoners will kill them if they can.

This thread is about a very specific type of grooming gang. These gangs were/are composed nearly entirely of Pakistani men. It needs to be addressed that somehow large groups of men were working together to exploit children, with apparently no challenge from inside or outside their community.

If culture, fear of being labelled racist, or anything else related to ethnicity played a part in how it happened, we need to know.

With regards to white British men hating women, some do but it's not universal at all. Misogynist behaviour is illegal in workplaces here and socially unacceptable in any decent group of people. Your comment about men telling women how to dress- I've been told I should cover up once in my life. By a Pakistani man who thought it was acceptable to approach me on the street and then told my husband he should make me cover up! My white husband was disgusted and we both told him his behaviour was completely unacceptable in Britain.

Fetaface · 15/06/2025 20:43

miraxxx · 15/06/2025 20:40

You can see why this particular kind of crime has been hidden away and not tackled for decades on end and why this particular inquiry is doomed to fail. The diversions and whattabouttery on this thread is itself ample evidence.
Here is a particular kind of sex crime with a particular profile of perpetrator and victim, patterns repeating over and over again over decades across many cities and towns in the UK. But it is all the "same kind" of misogyny and you are not to notice anything particular about this subset of crime - why the fuck not?

Yes same kind of profile for perpetrators - men! And same pattern of profile for victims - female teens/preteens.

The pattern is men grooming girls. Absolutely people do not like to talk about these two things.

OpheliaWasntMad · 15/06/2025 20:43

miraxxx · 15/06/2025 20:40

You can see why this particular kind of crime has been hidden away and not tackled for decades on end and why this particular inquiry is doomed to fail. The diversions and whattabouttery on this thread is itself ample evidence.
Here is a particular kind of sex crime with a particular profile of perpetrator and victim, patterns repeating over and over again over decades across many cities and towns in the UK. But it is all the "same kind" of misogyny and you are not to notice anything particular about this subset of crime - why the fuck not?

I agree. Some of the posters on here mirror the attitudes of the authorities who were blind to the patterns of abuse that were being repeated over and over.

MiloMinderbinder925 · 15/06/2025 20:42

OpheliaWasntMad · 15/06/2025 20:38

It is possible the abusers deliberately targeted white girls because they made judgements about their “morality “ and “virtue “ (since white working class girls who do not generally dress or behave as “modestly” as women from their culture. )

It's more likely that they were easy targets. These were sexual predators and paedophiles, I doubt they'd turn down opportunities due to skin colour.

Fetaface · 15/06/2025 20:41

OpheliaWasntMad · 15/06/2025 20:39

???

You said that they chose certain girls based on their race as being an easy target so what judgements did they make on brown girls about them being an easy target?

MiloMinderbinder925 · 15/06/2025 20:40

Barr77 · 15/06/2025 20:28

I agree that misogyny played a huge role — that's been well documented in the Casey Report and others. The way police and social workers dismissed these girls as making “lifestyle choices” was appalling and clearly rooted in deep institutional sexism.

But we also can’t ignore what the Jay Report (2014) and the Casey Review of Rotherham Council (2015) made explicitly clear: in cases like Rotherham, Rochdale, and Telford, a significant number of perpetrators were from Pakistani Muslim backgrounds, and cultural and ethnic dynamics absolutely shaped how the abuse played out — and how institutions failed to respond.

The Jay Report found that over 1,400 girls were abused in Rotherham alone, with many of the offenders being British Pakistani men. It also noted that authorities repeatedly failed to act, in part because they were afraid of being accused of racism. The Casey Review backed this up, describing a culture of cover-up and denial, where officials avoided addressing the ethnic aspect even when it was clearly relevant.

Authorities were reluctant to act or speak up because they feared being seen as racist. That fear directly contributed to the abuse continuing unchecked. So while misogyny was a core issue, political sensitivity around race and culture was not just “a factor” — it was central to the institutional paralysis.

This doesn’t mean painting whole communities with the same brush — most people in those communities were not involved and were horrified. But brushing over the ethnic and cultural aspect completely is also wrong. It’s possible — and necessary — to confront both truths: that this was about misogyny, and that cultural taboos, community silence, and institutional fear of racism accusations all played a role.

If we want real justice and real reform, we need to face the full picture, not just the parts that fit a preferred narrative.

I don't believe it was central, I believe misogyny was central and fear of racial tension was used as a convenient excuse. The fear of racial tension or being seen as racist has already been thoroughly explored and is well known. It was brought up in both reports and has had extensive coverage in the media.

I'm not exactly sure what people expect another investigation to find regarding this.

miraxxx · 15/06/2025 20:40

Hairgrip · 15/06/2025 19:56

There's an awful lot of Not My Nigel going on in here.

You can see why this particular kind of crime has been hidden away and not tackled for decades on end and why this particular inquiry is doomed to fail. The diversions and whattabouttery on this thread is itself ample evidence.
Here is a particular kind of sex crime with a particular profile of perpetrator and victim, patterns repeating over and over again over decades across many cities and towns in the UK. But it is all the "same kind" of misogyny and you are not to notice anything particular about this subset of crime - why the fuck not?

OpheliaWasntMad · 15/06/2025 20:39

Fetaface · 15/06/2025 20:38

What made them see brown girls as an easy target?

???

OpheliaWasntMad · 15/06/2025 20:38

MiloMinderbinder925 · 15/06/2025 20:32

I don't agree. The Casey report said that the girls were chosen because they were out late at night and vulnerable. The men were taxi drivers or ran food outlets and involved in the night time economy. I doubt they were choosy over who they groomed; they were predators.

It is possible the abusers deliberately targeted white girls because they made judgements about their “morality “ and “virtue “ (since white working class girls who do not generally dress or behave as “modestly” as women from their culture. )

Fetaface · 15/06/2025 20:38

OpheliaWasntMad · 15/06/2025 20:28

I agree there are many intersecting factors
Misogyny - in particular directed at working class girls and race ( the vulnerability and race of the girls and the race of the abusers who saw them as an easy target)

What made them see brown girls as an easy target?

Fetaface · 15/06/2025 20:36

Barr77 · 15/06/2025 20:28

I agree that misogyny played a huge role — that's been well documented in the Casey Report and others. The way police and social workers dismissed these girls as making “lifestyle choices” was appalling and clearly rooted in deep institutional sexism.

But we also can’t ignore what the Jay Report (2014) and the Casey Review of Rotherham Council (2015) made explicitly clear: in cases like Rotherham, Rochdale, and Telford, a significant number of perpetrators were from Pakistani Muslim backgrounds, and cultural and ethnic dynamics absolutely shaped how the abuse played out — and how institutions failed to respond.

The Jay Report found that over 1,400 girls were abused in Rotherham alone, with many of the offenders being British Pakistani men. It also noted that authorities repeatedly failed to act, in part because they were afraid of being accused of racism. The Casey Review backed this up, describing a culture of cover-up and denial, where officials avoided addressing the ethnic aspect even when it was clearly relevant.

Authorities were reluctant to act or speak up because they feared being seen as racist. That fear directly contributed to the abuse continuing unchecked. So while misogyny was a core issue, political sensitivity around race and culture was not just “a factor” — it was central to the institutional paralysis.

This doesn’t mean painting whole communities with the same brush — most people in those communities were not involved and were horrified. But brushing over the ethnic and cultural aspect completely is also wrong. It’s possible — and necessary — to confront both truths: that this was about misogyny, and that cultural taboos, community silence, and institutional fear of racism accusations all played a role.

If we want real justice and real reform, we need to face the full picture, not just the parts that fit a preferred narrative.

What caused them to fail to respond to white and black grooming gangs?

MiloMinderbinder925 · 15/06/2025 20:32

OpheliaWasntMad · 15/06/2025 20:28

I agree there are many intersecting factors
Misogyny - in particular directed at working class girls and race ( the vulnerability and race of the girls and the race of the abusers who saw them as an easy target)

I don't agree. The Casey report said that the girls were chosen because they were out late at night and vulnerable. The men were taxi drivers or ran food outlets and involved in the night time economy. I doubt they were choosy over who they groomed; they were predators.

OpheliaWasntMad · 15/06/2025 20:31

Barr77 · 15/06/2025 20:28

I agree that misogyny played a huge role — that's been well documented in the Casey Report and others. The way police and social workers dismissed these girls as making “lifestyle choices” was appalling and clearly rooted in deep institutional sexism.

But we also can’t ignore what the Jay Report (2014) and the Casey Review of Rotherham Council (2015) made explicitly clear: in cases like Rotherham, Rochdale, and Telford, a significant number of perpetrators were from Pakistani Muslim backgrounds, and cultural and ethnic dynamics absolutely shaped how the abuse played out — and how institutions failed to respond.

The Jay Report found that over 1,400 girls were abused in Rotherham alone, with many of the offenders being British Pakistani men. It also noted that authorities repeatedly failed to act, in part because they were afraid of being accused of racism. The Casey Review backed this up, describing a culture of cover-up and denial, where officials avoided addressing the ethnic aspect even when it was clearly relevant.

Authorities were reluctant to act or speak up because they feared being seen as racist. That fear directly contributed to the abuse continuing unchecked. So while misogyny was a core issue, political sensitivity around race and culture was not just “a factor” — it was central to the institutional paralysis.

This doesn’t mean painting whole communities with the same brush — most people in those communities were not involved and were horrified. But brushing over the ethnic and cultural aspect completely is also wrong. It’s possible — and necessary — to confront both truths: that this was about misogyny, and that cultural taboos, community silence, and institutional fear of racism accusations all played a role.

If we want real justice and real reform, we need to face the full picture, not just the parts that fit a preferred narrative.

Absolutely

Barr77 · 15/06/2025 20:28

MiloMinderbinder925 · 15/06/2025 20:10

That's one of the factors certainly and was picked up in the Casey report. The main factor was misogyny. Police, social workers and care staff dismissed girls as young as ten as having chosen a 'certain lifestyle.' They weren't considered victims and the men groomed and raped with impunity.

I agree that misogyny played a huge role — that's been well documented in the Casey Report and others. The way police and social workers dismissed these girls as making “lifestyle choices” was appalling and clearly rooted in deep institutional sexism.

But we also can’t ignore what the Jay Report (2014) and the Casey Review of Rotherham Council (2015) made explicitly clear: in cases like Rotherham, Rochdale, and Telford, a significant number of perpetrators were from Pakistani Muslim backgrounds, and cultural and ethnic dynamics absolutely shaped how the abuse played out — and how institutions failed to respond.

The Jay Report found that over 1,400 girls were abused in Rotherham alone, with many of the offenders being British Pakistani men. It also noted that authorities repeatedly failed to act, in part because they were afraid of being accused of racism. The Casey Review backed this up, describing a culture of cover-up and denial, where officials avoided addressing the ethnic aspect even when it was clearly relevant.

Authorities were reluctant to act or speak up because they feared being seen as racist. That fear directly contributed to the abuse continuing unchecked. So while misogyny was a core issue, political sensitivity around race and culture was not just “a factor” — it was central to the institutional paralysis.

This doesn’t mean painting whole communities with the same brush — most people in those communities were not involved and were horrified. But brushing over the ethnic and cultural aspect completely is also wrong. It’s possible — and necessary — to confront both truths: that this was about misogyny, and that cultural taboos, community silence, and institutional fear of racism accusations all played a role.

If we want real justice and real reform, we need to face the full picture, not just the parts that fit a preferred narrative.

OpheliaWasntMad · 15/06/2025 20:28

MiloMinderbinder925 · 15/06/2025 20:10

That's one of the factors certainly and was picked up in the Casey report. The main factor was misogyny. Police, social workers and care staff dismissed girls as young as ten as having chosen a 'certain lifestyle.' They weren't considered victims and the men groomed and raped with impunity.

I agree there are many intersecting factors
Misogyny - in particular directed at working class girls and race ( the vulnerability and race of the girls and the race of the abusers who saw them as an easy target)

NeedAnyHelpWithThatPaperBag · 15/06/2025 20:27

In the spirit of "only someone who has lived experience of something can justifiably criticise", another element has to be the unintended consequences of well meaning middle class left wingers with their "non judgementalism", due to being intellectual observers rather than lived experience participants?

Fetaface · 15/06/2025 20:15

MiloMinderbinder925 · 15/06/2025 20:10

That's one of the factors certainly and was picked up in the Casey report. The main factor was misogyny. Police, social workers and care staff dismissed girls as young as ten as having chosen a 'certain lifestyle.' They weren't considered victims and the men groomed and raped with impunity.

This!! The definition sadly labels the victims as the problem and still to this day it labels them. The definition calls it prostitution still which is sick in this day that this is still what is a legal definition.

MiloMinderbinder925 · 15/06/2025 20:10

OpheliaWasntMad · 15/06/2025 20:03

“We're talking about girls from the UK being failed by UK institutions”
Yes - but you missed out the reason why they were failed.
The institutions were afraid of being labelled racist if they drew awareness to the fact that the grooming gangs were of Pakistani origin.
That reluctance to acknowledge uncomfortable realities is a big part of the reason why the girls were not protected properly

Edited

That's one of the factors certainly and was picked up in the Casey report. The main factor was misogyny. Police, social workers and care staff dismissed girls as young as ten as having chosen a 'certain lifestyle.' They weren't considered victims and the men groomed and raped with impunity.

OpheliaWasntMad · 15/06/2025 20:03

MiloMinderbinder925 · 15/06/2025 19:39

We're talking about girls from the UK being failed by UK institutions.

“We're talking about girls from the UK being failed by UK institutions”
Yes - but you missed out the reason why they were failed.
The institutions were afraid of being labelled racist if they drew awareness to the fact that the grooming gangs were of Pakistani origin.
That reluctance to acknowledge uncomfortable realities is a big part of the reason why the girls were not protected properly

Swipe left for the next trending thread