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Original poster

DD has said she will never view me as a mum

404 replies

Strangersev · 14/06/2025 11:35

Hi all, this could be long and I want to say straight away I know I messed up, I just don’t know how to reply, I’m not looking to minimise my actions.

So background, my ex husband and I both had jobs which involved moving relatively frequently, we had one child, and over the 18 years of her childhood she lived in 5 countries (Canada, Italy, Singapore, Switzerland, and France). I am British, her dad is Italian.

For the first 10 years of her life I’d say we were a very happy family, we lived in Italy for 7 years which provided a real period of stability. We then moved to Singapore, this was more for my sake than my ex husbands but much like Canada in the early years he was willing to make a compromise for my career. However here is where cracks started to form. We lost our way with parenting, would have loud and dramatic fights and often our poor little DD would be witness. I regret this period deeply and 2 years later we moved to Switzerland, this was meant to be a happy middle ground, good career opportunities for us both and DD hadn’t really enjoyed life in Singapore so we thought this may be more familiar.

My ex husband immediately started having an affair, I knew but for 2 years just allowed it to happen. I lied to our DD about him working late when I knew he was with her, I didn’t question or press him on where he was, however 2 years in I came home to them in our bed. This was my breaking point, I spiralled, had a mental breakdown and went into a deep depression. I decided for 6 months I’d move back to my parents home in the uk, my husband and I agreed we would divorce. We spoke to DD and she insisted she wasn’t moving again, she liked Geneva, she was happy at school. I accepted that 6 months apart from her would be a sacrifice worth making. The 6 months passed and I was offered a dream role in Paris. My mental health wasn’t great still, I felt selfishly like I needed to make a decision that was best for me, so I took the job. I asked DD to move with me, she refused. Geneva to Paris was a very manageable distance though, I spent all the holidays with her and we had a lovely time. I do realise now I was saying horrible things about her dad to her during this time and that was immature and cruel of me.

Once DD finished that phase of schooling at 16, her dad got offered a job in Luxembourg which he decided he was going to take. DD was offered Paris or Luxembourg for her diploma years and settled on Paris. I think upon reflection this was very little to do with me and more that for a 16 year old girl Paris is perhaps the more inspirational place to live. I thought her living with me again would be wonderful but the reality was she took 7 subjects for her diploma instead of 6 (wanted to take all her languages) and the time taken up by other elements of the IB diploma meant she was never really home, distance grew between us massively in this time. I started a new relationship which at the time I didn’t feel guilty for as she was really never home in the week and on weekends she’s often want to go to her dads.

DD then took a gap year, and after that went to university in the UK. She is now graduating this summer.

I met up with her for lunch yesterday. She told me about the masters she will be doing, how excited she is to move back to Italy. I realised that in the 3 years she has been living in my home country I’ve only seen her 6 times. She always spends Christmas with her dad, spent summers travelling so it felt difficult to see her. I asked her jokingly if she felt more “British” after her 3 years and she said not at all. She is a third culture kid but If asked to pick she would always say she is Italian. I was hurt by this initially and told her this. She then said “I don’t even really view you as a mum”. This broke my heart I started to cry and she said she was best going.

She messaged me this morning explaining that she can’t view me as a mum as when she was 14-16 I messed with her head. I told her that her dad was evil and cruel yet I left her with him alone. She listed all the ways her dad has been a more selfless parent and more supportive parent.

I am now sad heartbroken and stunned, I don’t really know how to reply? Of course I can and will apologise and I don’t plan to defend my version of events but I feel like I should at least explain?

AIBU to feel like I should explain my side of the story to her? Or have I been ridiculously selfish and this is a result of my own actions?

Any advice much appreciated/

OP posts:
thenoisiesttermagant · 14/06/2025 15:56

I told her that her dad was evil and cruel yet I left her with him alone

I would not leave my children alone with someone I thought was evil and cruel, I would consider doing so child neglect. What I presume and hope you mean is that he was evil and cruel to YOU but in fact a good father TO HER (which seems to be backed up by her actions and what she herself has said to you). This sentence is telling (as is the rest of what you write) in that you seem to only see things from your point of view and are incapable of centering your child. What you describe is emotional abuse, I'm afraid. It may be you were unaware you were doing this because you were so hurt by your husband's infidelity but you can't go back and change the past now.

Most parents realise that they need to not slag off their ex's to their children as that is unfair and damaging to the children, it's a lack of normal parental boundaries. Where the ex has truly been cruel and evil the children eventually come to that realisation through their own lived experience (and then often choose to go no contact in adulthood) however your daughter seems to consider her father as the better parent and has listed reasons for this.

I'd suggest you get some counselling to come to terms with your daughter's opinions which I think are highly unlikely to change at this point in time. You cannot change her mind with words or arguments. She's lived the life over many years and come to this conclusion. You may have good reasons for the way you behaved - e.g. your own mental health struggles - but arguing now will not change her opinion and it's unfair to tell her about your mental health difficulties in detail even now - that's not her burden to bear. In fact I suspect you're more likely to drive her away if you argue and try and convince because you seem to want her to hear you and to some extent take on some of your emotional burden but not to listen to what she's saying which is a repeat of the pattern she's lived through. The counselling may help you to find a better way to express yourself to your daughter and a way to consider her point of view without immediately going on the defensive. It may also help you navigate a way to maintain a positive relationship with her going forward. Now she's an adult she really doesn't have to see you if she doesn't want to. An apology for the extent to which you messed up would probably be a start.

It also sounds like you have had fairly high powered jobs and so you managed to overcome your mental health struggles to be successful there but not to have appropriate boundaries around your daughter, which she likely sees as a choice. It's difficult to argue that your mental health meant you couldn't manage to do anything successfully given you were fairly regularly being offered dream jobs. Presumably you wouldn't have stayed employed if you were constantly slagging off your ex at work to the exclusion of all else so surely you can see that your daughter considers the fact you couldn't show the same restraint with her hurtful? Given how much you've moved around, i assume you had sufficient money to have paid for parenting classes or for counselling to help you with the many difficult transitions for your daughter - did you do any of this?

Good luck with the counselling - i hope you can find a way to have a positive relationship with your daughter going forward. The first step in doing this is truly listening to what she has said and apologising for hurting her.

Pamspeople · 14/06/2025 15:53

mangobird · 14/06/2025 15:23

This post is just another sign how selfish you are. It’s extremely outing with all the unnecessary details. I hope you have your daughter’s permission to post about her life and personal feelings for the entire world to see.

I hadn't thought about this, very good point. The poor lass.

Pamspeople · 14/06/2025 15:51

Strangersev · 14/06/2025 14:38

You are probably right, we did make life difficult for ourselves. There was a lot of compromise on both sides, and on DDs. Italy for me, Singapore for them, Geneva was meant to be a happy middle and for DD it was.

Waiting 2 years for the divorce was my choice entirely, I didn’t want to disrupt peace, I convinced myself it would sort itself out when we settled. After finding him in bed with his mistress I had a mental breakdown, I tried to take my own life 3 times. At the time I thought we hid it from DD but later learnt we hadn’t. She was a hyper vigilant child, had incredible critical thinking skills at a young age and was able to read between the lines with ease. I remember when she was 16 and moved to Paris she said “please don’t try and kill yourself again, I don’t want to find you like that”. This was the first time I’d ever realised she knew about that, I thought her dad had told her but she said he never mentioned anything about that time or me much at all. He’d only ever mention me to her to ask if I was well. She told me she figured it out the second time as her dad had told her I was unwell and in hospital, they brought me some items I needed and she said she doesn’t remember what but she overheard things. She then said she figured out it hadn’t been the first time and wasn’t surprised the 3rd time.

After the 3rd time I moved home, I wasn’t able to look after her and I really needed looking after. I wanted her to come with me, she didn’t want to.

while I was home I was offered a job in Paris, it made me want to live again and I took it without really thinking. I thought DD would want to come with me but she didn’t.

Whenever she visited me I did badmouth her dad, I don’t know why. I think I was worried he was doing the same and felt I needed to fight his influence.

When she did move to Paris she was extremely busy, taking 7 subjects at IB Diploma level, including Italian Literature self taught and at higher level. When she wasn’t studying she was playing sports (had to for the CAS element of IB) and doing her service work and creative work. It was intense and took up all her time. She would stay at school until it closed, go to tennis afterwards or study. Almost every Saturday involved her doing the service element in the morning then getting on a train to Luxembourg where she’d spend the rest of the day and Sunday and come back in the evening. She was incredibly independent and seemed very emotionally mature (introspective, self aware). During lockdown she and I existed in the same space but she was still studying hard and decided to write a book. She’s a quiet girl, not shy but quiet. She never seems to speak unless she really has something to say.

During her gap year she lived with her grandparents in Italy for a while, did a season in Verbier over the winter and travelled a little. I didn’t see her much during this, I called and we spoke but like I said never seemed to have much to say, we’d discuss what she had been reading or doing, politics. She never told me about relationships or her personal life.

When she told me she was going to uni in London I was over the moon and expected we would meet up often. She would come to Paris and not tell me, or if I messaged asking to see her she would often say she was busy. As she had always been independent I didn’t think she was avoiding me, I believed she was just busy.

Now I understand I messed up and I don’t expect forgiveness. It upsets me that I have effectively lost her as a daughter. I only learnt yesterday she has been in a relationship for a year and a half. She just doesn’t tell me things.

I asked the do you feel more British question as I guess I want her to feel like she is part of my culture too. The wider family all say she is nothing like British girls and is more generally European. My own mum has even said “you wouldn’t knew she was your daughter, doesn’t look much like you, act much like you or sound much like you”.

I have been selfish I know that, it was never intentional and I do love her dearly.

Show quote history

Oh OP, did you never wonder why she spent every moment she could away from home when she lived with you? Did you honestly think that was just "independence"? I don't think you know her at all, how could you?

I'm sorry that you've had struggles with your mental health but I'm so glad that your daughter seems to have survived her upbringing.

Zone2NorthLondon · 14/06/2025 15:50

Starlight7080 · 14/06/2025 15:26

Dont be so dramatic. She wasn't cruel. She didn't abuse her . She tried her best. And yes thats not up to your standard of what trying your best means. But it was her best.
She can try to build on the relationship she already has.

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Don’t be a chat show host with quips and platitudes. It’s asinine
Wasn’t cruel?Didnt abuse her? It’s not a race to the bottom to determine which is worst. Emotional absence or abuse?Cruelty or infrequent visits?
The daughter has expressed her dissatisfaction that’s what @Strangersev needs to hear and think about.
Gushy platitudes and Whataboutery aren’t helpful

AudHvamm · 14/06/2025 15:50

It might be interesting for you to try to understand what being a mother means to your daughter. To you it might be about having given birth to her, provided for her, given her opportunities and cared for her in some ways. To her it might be about a presence that is missing from her life, not feeling prioritised or ways in which you didn't show up.

The ideals of motherhood are impossible for most women to achieve, and your daughter feels you didn't live up to them. If you can have a conversation about that rather than what you did or didn't do and why then you might be able to understand each other better.

Twokittywakeupcall · 14/06/2025 15:46

@Strangersev what was your own childhood like?

EllieEllie25 · 14/06/2025 15:44

“I told her that her dad was evil and cruel yet I left her with him alone.”

Yes this is pretty messed up OP. This isn’t the time to try to explain yourself to her.

It’s good that she told you how she feels. For now, just focus on her and her feelings and really listen and hear what she has to say. acknowledge what life was like for her and let her feel understood, and tell her you’re sorry about the suicide attempts and you never wanted to leave her, and you’re grateful it didn’t work and you got to see her grow up. Tell her you are immensely proud of her and how she’s handled everything in her life. Tell her you love her, that you would love to still have a relationship with her and would love to meet her partner when she’s ready to introduce you.

In time maybe she will want to know things were for you and why you made the decisions you did but first you need to rebuild things with her.

It sounds like she has lived a life with a mixture of privilege and neglect and has come out of it very well. There’s no point beating yourself up about what’s past. Just try to focus on her feelings rather than yours for now.

Drew79 · 14/06/2025 15:44

ItsCalledAConversation · 14/06/2025 14:39

This. You might be a shit hot businesswoman but you’ve been a shit mum. Compounded by crying when she confronted you, how selfish can you get. Good on your DD for having some boundaries with your woeful parenting.

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To you and rest that have said this - How cold and unfeeling must you be to absolutely not cry when something upsets you - I know I couldn't prevent tears flowing.

Oriunda · 14/06/2025 15:42

ButteredRadish · 14/06/2025 14:13

I think your DD has been a very lucky girl growing up, she got to travel the world! The parent she should be angry at is her father not you! You were left raising a child alone whilst he was sleeping around and as a result, had a mental breakdown ffs! She is behaving like a spoilt little madam. If you were her father and had been gone for 6 months, nobody would bat an eyelid! I’ve seen people come on here and mention that their DC’s dad has been gone for multiple years, has reappeared and the responses have been in favour of simply letting it go and pretending it never happened! Yet as soon as a mother has a breakdown and takes a break, whilst not ideal, it’s regarded as the worst of parenting and it’s ridiculously sexist and I say that as single mum.

It’s clear you’ve no idea what it’s like for children having to follow their parents around the world. Definitely no party. We followed my husband to another country and I’m well aware of the difficulties it posed at first for my son. Having to leave his home, his school, his friends, to start again, especially adding in a new language. It was hard enough for me, let alone him. He’s happy now, but it definitely isn’t a thing to brush off as ‘travelling’ as if on holiday.

My DS is also a third culture child. He has mine, his father’s, and the country we live in. It’s entirely up to him whichever he aligns most with; I’m really not bothered either way.

OP, my mother left us when we were teens. We remained with our father. He definitely wasn’t perfect, but she never stopped telling us how awful he was. Years later, I’m now NC with her. Still in contact with him.

You’ve been given some good advice on here; hopefully you’ll take some of it onboard.

Spinachpastapicker · 14/06/2025 15:41

Pamspeople · 14/06/2025 13:22

Also don't underestimate the deep shame that children feel (but can't articulate) when the person who is supposed to put them first leaves them. It doesn't matter whether that's fair or rational, that's what they experience, and it never goes away. "I am such a bad kid that even my mum doesn't want me". I'm glad that she's been able to build enough self belief that she can be honest with you, OP.

Yes this is so important to recognise too.

Twokittywakeupcall · 14/06/2025 15:40

Also...it was "the job in Paris" that made you want to live again? What about your daughter and being there for her? This tells me everything.

I do feel for you OP as lot of what is being written must feel harsh and very confronting but for once, I don't feel anything here is being dramatically unkind. Just accurate, I am sad to say.

Finally, when I read this thread my first thought was "wow...someone who has parented worse than me". I'm very harsh on myself and the way I bring up my kids but I know I have always done what I think best for them. I'm not sure that ever factored into your thoughts .

AudHvamm · 14/06/2025 15:37

Strangersev · 14/06/2025 12:53

Thank you all. I do appreciate that in her eyes I did abandon her and badmouthing her my ex husband was a massive and unjustifiable mistake.

Interesting some here view the moving a lot as a failing. DD always says she is grateful for having experience multiple cultures as a child. She went to international schools so wasn’t the only child who moved from country to country. She always speaks fondly of the moves and is now fluent in 3 languages to a native and academic level and a 4th conversationally. She wants to work in book publishing and eventually book translation so she views the opportunities to not just learn these languages, but live them, appreciate the nuances and weight of the words as a massive pro in her life.

I also tend to think that her still choosing to make moves as an adult (doing her undergrad in a country she’d never lived in and now moving again for her masters) suggests she is actually fond of the childhood we gave her.

Well that or she doesn't know how to be grounded in one place.

AudHvamm · 14/06/2025 15:35

Allwillbeewell · 14/06/2025 11:42

I don't think you can explain anything, and anything you will try to explain will just sound like excuses. I think a heartfelt apology that you know you screwed up, wish you could do things differently and hope that in time you can rebuild your relationship with her.

She sounds like an amazing young woman with a good head on her shoulders and very educated.

Be open to her if she wants to talk more about it and don't try and defend yourself, and just keep an open dialogue but I wouldn't expect anything from her.

I think this is a very good approach.

Your daughter's central point about saying dreadful things about her father while leaving her in his care is not something you can make OK by offering your version of events. Parents should never badmouth each other like this, but it has the added layer of abandoning her to someone you thought was a terrible person, which would have made her feel like you didn't care about her at all.

MyHeartyCoralSnail · 14/06/2025 15:34

Firstly, your daughter sound amazing, but I suspect she will be in and out of therapy for years.

What on earth were you doing prioritising your careers at the expense of stability for your daughter? Did you turn a blind eye to your DHs affair because you were concentrating on your career? The fact your DH compromised his career and was the one to keep looking after your daughter means he probably has a much stronger relationship. The fact you prioritised your “dream job” in a different country over rushing back to your daughter says everything.

Im sorry -you reap what you sow, esp with children - you can try and rebuild a relationship with your daughter but I suggest you get councilling first to recognise where you went so wrong on the parenting front.

Fitasafiddle1 · 14/06/2025 15:33

In your place I would work intensely on building back your relationship. You can spend time with her swimming, talking, asking her questions. Start doing things you both enjoy together. Start prioritising her over everyone else op. Tell her you are sorry and love her deeply, and then show her what she means to you every day. That includes dropping everything and everyone when she needs you.

On some level she will still long for your love and attention, you still have time to make this up to her. I would stop at nothing to step up now for her.

Spinachpastapicker · 14/06/2025 15:33

HedgehogOnTheBike · 14/06/2025 13:09

Also teens say the cruellest things they can. Like she doesn't see you as her mother.
You are her mother and she knows it.

when she grows up she will gain a more balanced view.

Be penitent, loving, available, and dignified until then. No slagging him off.

As the daughter is graduating and about to do a Masters, I would assume she is early 20’s so an adult not a teen. And she’s perfectly justified in saying that OP isn’t like a Mum to her, because she wasn’t a good Mum.

tinyspiny · 14/06/2025 15:33

I’ve read all of your updates now @Strangersev and you just keep defending what you did , you are totally self obsessed and until you can find a way out of this mindset you will never have a chance to get things back on any kind of footing with your daughter .

Twokittywakeupcall · 14/06/2025 15:33

I'm also shocked at this woman's behaviour and her apparent lack of self awareness (still).

SENNeeds2 · 14/06/2025 15:33

I think you just need to say your sorry and you love her and always will.
I know in your mind you have what you think are good reasons for not being around for her .... but they are not standing out to me as a good reasons and I am guessing other strangers will think that too. By explaining you will be trying to make yourself feel better rather than her.

Lavenderfarmcottage · 14/06/2025 15:32

A mother is important at any age. You can rebuild your relationship & she may always claim you’re not her “real mother” but is this the truth or is it her articulating her unresolved anger and hurt ? I believe all can be repaired and that this is her way of expressing past hurt. When she has children of her own, that is a new chance to assist, be a great grandmother and your best self. We are all imperfect, we are all learning and growing and you had mental illness to contend with at that time. Forgive yourself, continue to love & improve & in time your daughter will hopefully let go of her anger and hurt & realise it doesn’t serve her. You clearly love your daughter & there is today and tomorrow and the day after - all you have to do is keep loving her, keep trying & the rest will follow as it should xoxox

Spinachpastapicker · 14/06/2025 15:27

LaraMontgomery · 14/06/2025 13:00

@Strangersev please ask Mumsnet to take this thread down, or delete your account in Settings. The perfect parents are out in force and it is bad for your mental health to read the nasty replies.

We are not perfect parents, most of us are getting by, but most of us have done a far better job than OP. It’s not nasty replies, it’s truth. OP gave us the details of her situation and it’s unreasonable to expect people not to be shocked and comment. OP wants help and she is getting advice - it’s up to her how to take it and proceed.
If everyone just ignored their own poor behaviour forever, no one would ever reflect and improve.

trainboundfornowhere · 14/06/2025 15:27

My mum had a difficult relationship with her mum. My grandmother also had an affair and disappeared halfway round the world for a few years leaving my mum and her brother to be raised by their dad. My grandmother loved the idea of a relationship with my mum after my mum had children. What my mum said to my grandmother was the past is the past but if you want a relationship now you have to put the effort in and show you want it because I was the child and you were the adult. Apologise to your daughter and offer to do something with her that she enjoys. You cannot change the past but show her from now that you are there when she needs you and that she can trust you. Hopefully you can slowly build a better relationship from now on. My grandmother could never put the effort in long term so now she and my mum are no contact.

Starlight7080 · 14/06/2025 15:26

Zone2NorthLondon · 14/06/2025 15:04

Now isn’t time for platitudes
You have no idea how it’ll work out or how daughter will feel

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Dont be so dramatic. She wasn't cruel. She didn't abuse her . She tried her best. And yes thats not up to your standard of what trying your best means. But it was her best.
She can try to build on the relationship she already has.

SpryCat · 14/06/2025 15:23

Your daughter told you how she feels and why, you needed to own up to it, not get upset because you can’t handle the truth. You can’t change the past, you can however, let her know, she is right, you made many mistakes and she was very hurt by them. That you regret not putting her before your career and endlessly bad mouthed her DF. That you cried with shame when she told you how she feels but you really want to be part of her life and you hope she can one day forgive you.

You validate her feelings, own up to your mistakes and would love to be part of her life, is all you can do, don’t try to explain or cover up, she doesn’t want excuses.

mangobird · 14/06/2025 15:23

This post is just another sign how selfish you are. It’s extremely outing with all the unnecessary details. I hope you have your daughter’s permission to post about her life and personal feelings for the entire world to see.