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Original poster

DD has said she will never view me as a mum

404 replies

Strangersev · 14/06/2025 11:35

Hi all, this could be long and I want to say straight away I know I messed up, I just don’t know how to reply, I’m not looking to minimise my actions.

So background, my ex husband and I both had jobs which involved moving relatively frequently, we had one child, and over the 18 years of her childhood she lived in 5 countries (Canada, Italy, Singapore, Switzerland, and France). I am British, her dad is Italian.

For the first 10 years of her life I’d say we were a very happy family, we lived in Italy for 7 years which provided a real period of stability. We then moved to Singapore, this was more for my sake than my ex husbands but much like Canada in the early years he was willing to make a compromise for my career. However here is where cracks started to form. We lost our way with parenting, would have loud and dramatic fights and often our poor little DD would be witness. I regret this period deeply and 2 years later we moved to Switzerland, this was meant to be a happy middle ground, good career opportunities for us both and DD hadn’t really enjoyed life in Singapore so we thought this may be more familiar.

My ex husband immediately started having an affair, I knew but for 2 years just allowed it to happen. I lied to our DD about him working late when I knew he was with her, I didn’t question or press him on where he was, however 2 years in I came home to them in our bed. This was my breaking point, I spiralled, had a mental breakdown and went into a deep depression. I decided for 6 months I’d move back to my parents home in the uk, my husband and I agreed we would divorce. We spoke to DD and she insisted she wasn’t moving again, she liked Geneva, she was happy at school. I accepted that 6 months apart from her would be a sacrifice worth making. The 6 months passed and I was offered a dream role in Paris. My mental health wasn’t great still, I felt selfishly like I needed to make a decision that was best for me, so I took the job. I asked DD to move with me, she refused. Geneva to Paris was a very manageable distance though, I spent all the holidays with her and we had a lovely time. I do realise now I was saying horrible things about her dad to her during this time and that was immature and cruel of me.

Once DD finished that phase of schooling at 16, her dad got offered a job in Luxembourg which he decided he was going to take. DD was offered Paris or Luxembourg for her diploma years and settled on Paris. I think upon reflection this was very little to do with me and more that for a 16 year old girl Paris is perhaps the more inspirational place to live. I thought her living with me again would be wonderful but the reality was she took 7 subjects for her diploma instead of 6 (wanted to take all her languages) and the time taken up by other elements of the IB diploma meant she was never really home, distance grew between us massively in this time. I started a new relationship which at the time I didn’t feel guilty for as she was really never home in the week and on weekends she’s often want to go to her dads.

DD then took a gap year, and after that went to university in the UK. She is now graduating this summer.

I met up with her for lunch yesterday. She told me about the masters she will be doing, how excited she is to move back to Italy. I realised that in the 3 years she has been living in my home country I’ve only seen her 6 times. She always spends Christmas with her dad, spent summers travelling so it felt difficult to see her. I asked her jokingly if she felt more “British” after her 3 years and she said not at all. She is a third culture kid but If asked to pick she would always say she is Italian. I was hurt by this initially and told her this. She then said “I don’t even really view you as a mum”. This broke my heart I started to cry and she said she was best going.

She messaged me this morning explaining that she can’t view me as a mum as when she was 14-16 I messed with her head. I told her that her dad was evil and cruel yet I left her with him alone. She listed all the ways her dad has been a more selfless parent and more supportive parent.

I am now sad heartbroken and stunned, I don’t really know how to reply? Of course I can and will apologise and I don’t plan to defend my version of events but I feel like I should at least explain?

AIBU to feel like I should explain my side of the story to her? Or have I been ridiculously selfish and this is a result of my own actions?

Any advice much appreciated/

OP posts:
SpryCat · 14/06/2025 19:59

She doesn’t need a mum, as in the mum she needed as a youngster, but you can apologise for the pain, your absence made her feel. You can apologise for bad mouthing her dad and say you were struggling and made mistakes.

She needs you to be more consistent with her, to keep trying to build a bridge and show her you care. She feels estranged from you, she rarely sees you and deep down she wants to feel loved by you. You need to show interest in what she is doing and how she is feeling and her plans for the future.
You have to make the next move, you ring her and apologise, say you know she’s right, that you apologise for not being the mum she deserved. That you were upset when she said she doesn’t think of you as a mum, that you feel very ashamed and a lot of guilt. You want a closer relationship with her, you’ve always loved her dearly. That no explanations or apologies can undo the damage your absence caused her but you want to be there for her now.

GranTeton4 · 14/06/2025 19:55

You cant really blame her for what she has said, you sound like a horrible selfish person and a absolutely terrible mother (not that you have even acted like a mother).
I'm surprised she even still speaks to you.

thenoisiesttermagant · 14/06/2025 19:52

I do also hope that OP's DD doesn't find this thread because if I read the things OP has posted it would confirm that my Mum didn't care about me that much.

Saying her Dad was 'evil' but that she left her DD with him - why would anyone leave a child they cared about with a man who they considered 'evil'? You could argue that she only meant in regard to her but a child can't see that and even a young adult I think will struggle to believe that point of view after suffering so much trauma.

Saying a mere job made her want to live again, with the obvious inference their child did not - that's how a child would read it. Even if that's a wrong reading, it's asking an awful lot for a child not to take that personally, even if they're now an adult.

Children aren't supposed to have to have adult levels of empathy for their parents, at least not until they're quite mature adults themselves. The parenting relationship is supposed to be much more one way and supportive, even in young adulthood.

And presumably OP's DD is surrounded by other young people with mothers who were far more present in their childhood. Some of them probably moan about their mothers still doing their washing when they go home or constantly calling / texting them - the small acts that show love that yes are irritating but also help foster a deep sense of security. The comparison must be really hard for her.

Honestly I think the past is best left in the past with an apology, listening to what OP's DD says about what she feels and what she wants now and really taking on board her point of view about what is possible going forward. I really think nothing good will come of OP 'explaining' over things that can never be changed. That will only be possible many years later after the relationship is rebuilt if at all.

Thepeopleversuswork · 14/06/2025 19:48

My husband had a peripatetic childhood and indeed feels in some ways he benefited from that, but as a result he has always struggled with meaningful friendships, as he always knew they would never last and he would move again. Always being the new kid is tough going, especially for teenagers. The resilience they are obliged to have can sometimes be a barrier.

This is a perfect summary of the situation. Children love their parents instinctively even if they are flawed or downright bad. And their childhood is their childhood. They adapt to what life throws them or they break mentally under the strain. Yes she's become resilient because she's had to be and she's come to appreciate certain positives from her upbringing.

That's a sign of someone who has had to toughen up and become very self-reliant. It's not an indication, to be brutal, that you did anything right.

My father was deeply selfish, also entirely preoccupied with his career and repeatedly had affairs. He was also very erudite and intelligent and taught me a lot about a lot of things.

As an adult I can see objectively that there were certain advantages that came from having a highly intelligent and ambitious father and I've leveraged those where I can because it would be silly not to take advantage of the gifts I was given. But that doesn't mean he was a good parent and it doesn't mean he didn't damage me.

You will only be able to repair this relationship if you make peace with your own shortcomings and acknowledge the harm you've done to your child. If you can do this, you have a chance. If you continue making excuses and trying to put the most positive gloss possible on the situation your daughter will completely detach from you.

TheFlakyAquaSloth · 14/06/2025 19:47

Agree with her.

I was wrong to get upset, the upset is because I screwed up - what you said is fair and reasonable and you were kind and honest. You are a remarkable young woman and I’m sorry you don’t feel I’m your mum- but this is on me. I might not have shown it when you were younger and all I can do is put my hands up and take responsibility and promise to do differently if you allow me a place in your life.I hope you will allow me a place in your heart and time, and allow this relationship time to heal and flourish. I will be here for you always. You might not feel I’m your mum, but I hope you will respect that I feel I am your mum - albeit one that didn’t do it in any way properly when you were younger / teenager l, and allow me to refer to you as my daughter. You are right, I wasn’t there and despite it, because of you and who you are to succeed, you are a superb young woman of whom I am very proud. You succeeded beyond all measures when you were failed, by me. I hope you would allow me to sign off on this message as Mum - you are the best daughter any woman could have wished for. You are kind, empathetic, logical, intelligent, wise, funny and a force of nature. I love you and thank you for your honesty.

Mumx

TheignT · 14/06/2025 19:46

thenoisiesttermagant · 14/06/2025 16:16

Good point, offering to pay for counselling for her daughter might be a really good olive branch. It would be a form of apology too. It does seem the daughter likely needs counselling.

Show quote history

Do you think so? If I was the daughter I'd think suggesting I needed counselling was suggesting the problem was me not my mother disappearing for years.

WordleForWordle · 14/06/2025 19:38

Strangersev · 14/06/2025 14:38

You are probably right, we did make life difficult for ourselves. There was a lot of compromise on both sides, and on DDs. Italy for me, Singapore for them, Geneva was meant to be a happy middle and for DD it was.

Waiting 2 years for the divorce was my choice entirely, I didn’t want to disrupt peace, I convinced myself it would sort itself out when we settled. After finding him in bed with his mistress I had a mental breakdown, I tried to take my own life 3 times. At the time I thought we hid it from DD but later learnt we hadn’t. She was a hyper vigilant child, had incredible critical thinking skills at a young age and was able to read between the lines with ease. I remember when she was 16 and moved to Paris she said “please don’t try and kill yourself again, I don’t want to find you like that”. This was the first time I’d ever realised she knew about that, I thought her dad had told her but she said he never mentioned anything about that time or me much at all. He’d only ever mention me to her to ask if I was well. She told me she figured it out the second time as her dad had told her I was unwell and in hospital, they brought me some items I needed and she said she doesn’t remember what but she overheard things. She then said she figured out it hadn’t been the first time and wasn’t surprised the 3rd time.

After the 3rd time I moved home, I wasn’t able to look after her and I really needed looking after. I wanted her to come with me, she didn’t want to.

while I was home I was offered a job in Paris, it made me want to live again and I took it without really thinking. I thought DD would want to come with me but she didn’t.

Whenever she visited me I did badmouth her dad, I don’t know why. I think I was worried he was doing the same and felt I needed to fight his influence.

When she did move to Paris she was extremely busy, taking 7 subjects at IB Diploma level, including Italian Literature self taught and at higher level. When she wasn’t studying she was playing sports (had to for the CAS element of IB) and doing her service work and creative work. It was intense and took up all her time. She would stay at school until it closed, go to tennis afterwards or study. Almost every Saturday involved her doing the service element in the morning then getting on a train to Luxembourg where she’d spend the rest of the day and Sunday and come back in the evening. She was incredibly independent and seemed very emotionally mature (introspective, self aware). During lockdown she and I existed in the same space but she was still studying hard and decided to write a book. She’s a quiet girl, not shy but quiet. She never seems to speak unless she really has something to say.

During her gap year she lived with her grandparents in Italy for a while, did a season in Verbier over the winter and travelled a little. I didn’t see her much during this, I called and we spoke but like I said never seemed to have much to say, we’d discuss what she had been reading or doing, politics. She never told me about relationships or her personal life.

When she told me she was going to uni in London I was over the moon and expected we would meet up often. She would come to Paris and not tell me, or if I messaged asking to see her she would often say she was busy. As she had always been independent I didn’t think she was avoiding me, I believed she was just busy.

Now I understand I messed up and I don’t expect forgiveness. It upsets me that I have effectively lost her as a daughter. I only learnt yesterday she has been in a relationship for a year and a half. She just doesn’t tell me things.

I asked the do you feel more British question as I guess I want her to feel like she is part of my culture too. The wider family all say she is nothing like British girls and is more generally European. My own mum has even said “you wouldn’t knew she was your daughter, doesn’t look much like you, act much like you or sound much like you”.

I have been selfish I know that, it was never intentional and I do love her dearly.

Show quote history

I remember when she was 16 and moved to Paris she said “please don’t try and kill yourself again, I don’t want to find you like that”.

That was her cry for help. Begging you not to go to Paris. You should not have gone. My heart breaks for your girl.

You have huge amounts of making up to do. It will take constant and persistent genuine apologies and reflection. I hope it works out for you. I really do.

TiredMame · 14/06/2025 19:37

I do feel sorry for you op, it’s seems like you went through a hell of a time too. Unfortunately your dd went through it hundreds of times worse. She was a child that had to cope with massive things happening. Imagine knowing your mum tried to kill herself. How traumatic that was for her. She had to alongside that become a teenage girl and not turn to her mum for any of that. She had to grow up without you and that is why she said that.
I don’t think your relationship can recover, it can only go on in a very surface level kind of way. She needs to protect herself and can’t be blamed for that.

Ilikeadrink14 · 14/06/2025 19:35

I could never have left my child for six months and it’s worrying that you were quite happy to do so. I know of no loving mother who would do this. This says to me that you weren’t that bothered about her anyway. You have brought this on yourself.
Good luck with fixing it.

Sunshineismyfavourite · 14/06/2025 19:29

You can only acknowledge her feelings and apologise for your part in how hurt she feels. You can't blame her OP, you prioritised yourself and your career over your child. It was definitely a very unconventional childhood although she did have some wonderful opportunities, living in different countries and learning the languages that she clearly loves so much. You can't change the past and that is what has shaped her and made her the young woman she is today.
You can only stay in touch with her and move forwards to try and build a positive and loving relationship with her.

Emonade · 14/06/2025 19:29

Strangersev · 14/06/2025 11:35

Hi all, this could be long and I want to say straight away I know I messed up, I just don’t know how to reply, I’m not looking to minimise my actions.

So background, my ex husband and I both had jobs which involved moving relatively frequently, we had one child, and over the 18 years of her childhood she lived in 5 countries (Canada, Italy, Singapore, Switzerland, and France). I am British, her dad is Italian.

For the first 10 years of her life I’d say we were a very happy family, we lived in Italy for 7 years which provided a real period of stability. We then moved to Singapore, this was more for my sake than my ex husbands but much like Canada in the early years he was willing to make a compromise for my career. However here is where cracks started to form. We lost our way with parenting, would have loud and dramatic fights and often our poor little DD would be witness. I regret this period deeply and 2 years later we moved to Switzerland, this was meant to be a happy middle ground, good career opportunities for us both and DD hadn’t really enjoyed life in Singapore so we thought this may be more familiar.

My ex husband immediately started having an affair, I knew but for 2 years just allowed it to happen. I lied to our DD about him working late when I knew he was with her, I didn’t question or press him on where he was, however 2 years in I came home to them in our bed. This was my breaking point, I spiralled, had a mental breakdown and went into a deep depression. I decided for 6 months I’d move back to my parents home in the uk, my husband and I agreed we would divorce. We spoke to DD and she insisted she wasn’t moving again, she liked Geneva, she was happy at school. I accepted that 6 months apart from her would be a sacrifice worth making. The 6 months passed and I was offered a dream role in Paris. My mental health wasn’t great still, I felt selfishly like I needed to make a decision that was best for me, so I took the job. I asked DD to move with me, she refused. Geneva to Paris was a very manageable distance though, I spent all the holidays with her and we had a lovely time. I do realise now I was saying horrible things about her dad to her during this time and that was immature and cruel of me.

Once DD finished that phase of schooling at 16, her dad got offered a job in Luxembourg which he decided he was going to take. DD was offered Paris or Luxembourg for her diploma years and settled on Paris. I think upon reflection this was very little to do with me and more that for a 16 year old girl Paris is perhaps the more inspirational place to live. I thought her living with me again would be wonderful but the reality was she took 7 subjects for her diploma instead of 6 (wanted to take all her languages) and the time taken up by other elements of the IB diploma meant she was never really home, distance grew between us massively in this time. I started a new relationship which at the time I didn’t feel guilty for as she was really never home in the week and on weekends she’s often want to go to her dads.

DD then took a gap year, and after that went to university in the UK. She is now graduating this summer.

I met up with her for lunch yesterday. She told me about the masters she will be doing, how excited she is to move back to Italy. I realised that in the 3 years she has been living in my home country I’ve only seen her 6 times. She always spends Christmas with her dad, spent summers travelling so it felt difficult to see her. I asked her jokingly if she felt more “British” after her 3 years and she said not at all. She is a third culture kid but If asked to pick she would always say she is Italian. I was hurt by this initially and told her this. She then said “I don’t even really view you as a mum”. This broke my heart I started to cry and she said she was best going.

She messaged me this morning explaining that she can’t view me as a mum as when she was 14-16 I messed with her head. I told her that her dad was evil and cruel yet I left her with him alone. She listed all the ways her dad has been a more selfless parent and more supportive parent.

I am now sad heartbroken and stunned, I don’t really know how to reply? Of course I can and will apologise and I don’t plan to defend my version of events but I feel like I should at least explain?

AIBU to feel like I should explain my side of the story to her? Or have I been ridiculously selfish and this is a result of my own actions?

Any advice much appreciated/

You just have to apologise and listen. She has trauma caused by you and you’re going to have to try really hard to mend that.

Booboobagins · 14/06/2025 19:25

@Strangersev your DD is obvs close to her Dad. He was a DH btw. What a way to behave. Your DD will work it out one day. It's hard to hide 2 yrs of a relationship.

I don't know why you decided not to confront him, but that seems to be the point things are hard to explain now.

I would tell your DD you love her and will always be there for her. I'd tell her you are obviously devastated by what she said but you respect her view and are sorry that's her view.

Leave the door open. Make space for her in your life. Calll her regularly. Stay in her life.

Sending a big hug xxx

thenoisiesttermagant · 14/06/2025 19:24

tsmainsqueeze · 14/06/2025 18:43

You can't really excuse your behaviour towards her and i can understand why she feels detached from you.
But there is a future ,perhaps you could write a heartfelt apology ,no excuses just tell her what you feel for her ,then for the rest of your life put her 1st and move mountains to see her regularly and communicate and hope that she will forgive your actions a little and form some kind of mother/daughter relationship.
Perhaps in the future you may be given the priviledge to be a grandmother to her children and this may give you chance to make amends to some degree .
Your post is really sad and i hope for you both that things get better.

The making amends with your daughter and with grandchildren is something that is possible.

But just so OP can benefit from my experience - for my selfish mother, I could cope with her self absorption and lack of putting me first when it came to me in order to have a relationship but I will never forgive the many times she ditched plans she had with my kids for something else she wanted to do instead. And her lack of putting effort in to see them, yet still expected them to care about her. After a while, DH put his foot down, set boundaries and refused to encourage our kids to get excited about seeing their grandmother because she'd let them down too often or put them secondary to something else. He called out her emotional manipulation too. I am grateful for this.

We also don't correct our children when they accurately negatively compare her behaviour to DH's mother who gives them so much more love, even though she lives in a different country many miles away. It's highly unlikely OP's DD will tolerate any of the behaviours OP has shown in the past towards her own children, so OP really does need to understand her DD's point of view and how her actions were harmful and hurtful to a child if she wants to make that relationship work.

MyLittleNest · 14/06/2025 19:20

As someone estranged from their mother by choice, I can tell you that if my mother were to work on herself and go out of her way to build a positive relationship with me and treat me with kindness and love, I would be open to it. In my case, she is not willing.

I can't put words into your daughter's mouth, but deep down she probably longs to have a close relationship with you, and it probably hurts her that she felt she never had that.

It sounds like your daughter sort of gave you a wake up call and now you would like a closer relationship with her. Your daughter is still young and I think that you should not give up hope. The most important thing you can do to repair your relationship or give it a chance of a fresh start is to take accountability for your actions in the past and tell her you understand the part you played in making her feel this way. Trying to explain your reasons or expect sympathy is not going to get you to your goal. Maybe some day you can have that talk, but not now.

You have to focus on a fresh start, even if it is with baby steps, and even if she is not very responsive at first. You missed out on a lot of her childhood but now she is a young adult and you can have a very different and new type of bond if you focus on the possibility of that.

I think you really need to earn her trust and it may take a long time for her to be open to having a closer relationship with you, but if you start today, who knows where you can be in five years.

MadamePeriwinkle · 14/06/2025 19:16

I have been selfish I know that, it was never intentional and I do love her dearly.

Tell her this, and that you know you can't get those years back or change how she feels now, but you'd like to do better and work on your relationship going forward, and if there's anything she would like to suggest regarding ways you can do that you are always willing to listen.

The moving was a lot, and seems like it was largely positive - but it's still a lot of upheaval for a child and for it to work she really needed stability in every other way. That she didn't get that isn't entirely down to you, but you made some less than stellar choices and it's understandable she feels this way.

Not only did you choose to move away (for understandable reasons), you then chose to move to another country instead of return to where your daughter was living. Against the backdrop of your suicide attempts which to a child can easily be interpreted as 'was I not enough for them to live for...'

I think it's very possible that you can have a good relationship going forward, but it's going to take a lot of time and effort on your part.

Spinachpastapicker · 14/06/2025 19:03

HedgehogOnTheBike · 14/06/2025 16:24

This woman has explained she tried to kill herself three times and people are still keen to scold her and highlight their superior parenting choices. Such compassion on show.

maybe some of us have had severe depression but never ever considered suicide precisely because we knew our kids needed us.

Pinkissmart · 14/06/2025 19:02

Just apologise and tell her you love her and want to be her mum. Don't try and convince her to have sympathy for you

Picklechicken · 14/06/2025 19:02

SummerInSun · 14/06/2025 15:05

The thing that comes through to me over and over again when I read threads by women who are estranged from their families (eg the Staley Homes thread) is that what the poster most wants is acknowledgement that their feelings are valid and an apology. They don’t want justification from the parent and they really, really don’t want the parent trying to convince them that the version of events that’s their own feelings is their own head is wrong. So with that in mind, I absolutely would NOT focus on trying to explain or justify your actions, let alone try to talk her into seeing it the way you see it. I think I what you need is a heartfelt apology that you made her feel that way, acknowledgement that you never should have talked about her dad like that to her, and express a heartfelt desire to do what you can to hold a better relationship going forward. Do far far more listening than talking.

Absolutely this.

If you’re going to move forwards this is what you have to do.

Spinachpastapicker · 14/06/2025 18:59

nocoolnamesleft · 14/06/2025 16:14

Of course she couldn’t feel able to go with you in England, or join you in Paris. She was utterly terrified of walking in on your dead body. Yes, you were hurting, but she will have been a total mess.

Yes just read the updates about the suicide attempts. Dear god that poor child. Will have felt she wasn’t enough to make her Mum stay.

I really hope OP’s “dream job” that “brought her back to life” was worth it - at least she could pay for some therapy for her DD.

ChateauMargaux · 14/06/2025 18:57

Enormous hugs. Life is often not how we imagine it might be.

I would find a psychotherapist. And maybe, when you have worked through some of this, ask her how she wants to move forward with your relationship... maybe one day, she might consider some family therapy.

While I understand other posters comments, this situation was not entirely of your making.. and it definitely wasn't her's.

Supporting her to be the happiest she can be, might not look how you imagine it...

Starlight7080 · 14/06/2025 18:56

Zone2NorthLondon · 14/06/2025 16:43

The point you’re missing is making misplaced optimistic statements isn’t adding anything
We don’t know how this will play out,or what her daughter will decide.
Speculation and platitudes won’t guarantee improvement
The daughter will decide if improvement is achievable (or wanted)

Show quote history

At no point did I say it would be easy or even that her child was interested.

But I did say she can try and has the opportunity to try.
Nothing wrong with being positive.

Starlight7080 · 14/06/2025 18:53

applegingermint · 14/06/2025 17:47

She abandoned her child when life got too hard, and her child experienced a parent attempting to take her life 3 times.

Not getting proper support for her daughter (whether counselling or additional help) particularly as money did not seem to be of concern falls far short of doing your best. Having poor mental health doesn’t absolve you of considering the impact on your children. Both abandonment and living with a parent with poor mental health are recognised adverse childhood experiences.

Edited
Show quote history

Again someone else missing the point of my comment.
She in a time when she was obviously very distraught and not well . She did the best she could .
Was it the best for her child? No.
But she can't go back in time and change anything that happened.
All she can do is try to build on the relationship they have. In whatever form that takes.
She now has the chance to do that. I have not said she will have a perfect relationship with her . Or her daughter will even be interested. All I have said is she has the chance to try.

RogersOrganismicProcess · 14/06/2025 18:50

Haven’t you posted about your daughter before: complaining that she won’t use the British variation of her name when she is with you?

Kindly, you are making your daughter’s life decisions about you rather than offering her support and understanding. You need support with this before it causes more damage.

Supersimkin7 · 14/06/2025 18:49

You’ve got what you wanted - be reasonable.

You put one person first, loved one person and you’ve got her permanently.

Yourself. Enjoy!

ScribblingPixie · 14/06/2025 18:44

It sounds like a patchwork of negative and positive. Nothing you can do about that now except accept what she has said and don't dive in with any attempted defence. Do your best for her from now on, and time and perspective will improve your relationship.