Which of your children would take up arms if need be to defend their country

I have no children so none of them

If I would take up arms defends on whether I
thought my country was in the right.

When I was about 17, I was in the audience of some afternoon TV show where they were debating the question 'would the youth of today fight for their country?' (I think they called my school and said, 'Send us an articulate hippy.')

When asked the question on telly, I said that I didn't think I would, but then I didn't suppose that many teenagers in 1935 thought they would either. But if I did, I wouldn't be fighting for my country. I'd be fighting for my family and my friends and my bit of South London. It'd be a complete historical accident that was in the front line next to a squaddie from Newcastle and a nurse from Plymouth who were fighting for their family and their street.

Still applies. I have plenty of family and friends in my bit of the UK. But I have more friends in Barcelona, Amsterdam, Budapest and New Jersey than I have in Basingstoke, Amersham, Burnley or Newport. And I feel more European than British.

If my kids decide to fight, I hope it's for people, not for a flag.

I replied to that earlier, I completely understand that perspective and would do the same in their position.
Obviously not everyone would, but I wouldn't be staying in a dangerous, low quality life if there was an alternative option.
Personally I don't know if I would risk the channel, but the men making that choice probably aren't making a fully informed choice by knowing the actual level of risk in many cases.

I think you'll find the biggest difference between and other refugee populations is actually freedom of movement.

It's not that hard to evaluate, Russia under Putin is a threat. The UK is already under attack via hybrid warfare, as is the rest of West. Disinformation, cyber attacks, weaponising refugees (this was happening in Finland until we closed the borders), sabotage (communication cables keep getting "accidentally" cut between Finland and Europe), GPS jamming (bad enough here that its having an impact on aviation with planes not being able to land), air space violations etc. Putin is constantly seeing how far he can push us, if he believes we won't retaliate strongly enough then eventually that push will be military.

Some have gone back due to homesickness but most of the Ukrainians I've met have stayed in continental Europe. The difference between them and other refugee populations local to me is that the Ukrainians tend to be more educated and career-focused, which pulls them towards big cities and/or Switzerland. DD1 has one Ukrainian mate left, who is about to go to a local university. DS used to volunteer with them and says that they have mostly moved away.

I think part of the problem is that Putin is so unpredictable that it's very hard to evaluate what is a real threat and what is just warmongering rhetoric from western heads of state intent on distracting us from their own awful record in.government. I don't think the UK has much to fear imminently, but I appreciate that the picture looks very different from the Baltic/Scandinavian countries.

Both my step-children are in reserved occupations. So am I. We wouldn't get called up, although I can see one of them volunteering to go into the forces medical branch if it came to it. If they did, I would be worried sick and simultaneously proud as anything of them.
I don't think my brother would have volunteered when he was younger. He spent his 20s clubbing and having a good time. Although maybe something like volunteering for his country might have been the making of him.

I would try to leave the country.

Enterusername111333 "That's what I don't understand about all the men coming over on boats. Why are they not staying and fighting for their country"

Now add those up and see if you make 4 .....

I mean, this is just pathetic. The whole premise of the question was if the country was invaded and overrun. Obviously anyone who isn’t solely focused on scoring points would take it as read that the armed forces would be the first port of call, but if there weren't enough of them and conscription was needed - what then? Sit there and say "no way" or expect someone else to defend you? It's hardly an unreasonable question.

I think a fair share will have thought they made the right decision.

Impossible for me to know obvs, either on an individual or mass basis, each person's answer may be different. That dilemma of "could I have made a difference?"

And obvs Ukraine was only an example - the principle is true wherever or whatever the conflict - stand up or give in, both choices have their consequences.

And we can all appreciate that "I don't want anything to happen to my family" sentiment but where does that actually leave you?

Do you think the Ukrainians who left have regretted it?

I'm a first-wave kinda gal, and that's one of the 20 million reasons I avoided having children. I don't care if this makes me a coward, but I didn't ask for any of this and I hate to suffer more than I already do, at the hands of another.

I can't speak for my DB and his young family though, sadly. He is married to a central European wife who I suspect supports Russia so that's a different conversation entirely.

I would want to see the sons and daughters of our politicians fight (and die) before any child of mine did.

Our elites always expect other people to fight, but they and their kin are too important

(They also expect other people’s kids to become plumbers, childminders and so on whilst their kids and do some bullshit job WFH in HR)

For many people fighting might not even be an option. I can imagine that if there is a civil war, and I happen to live in an area ruled by the enemy, the options might be leaving, complying or being killed.

And we can all appreciate that "I don't want anything to happen to my family" sentiment but where does that actually leave you?

If you were Ukrainian and you and every one else there had your attitude Russia would have walked into your country 3 years ago - Russian soldiers walking down your street, into your house, your workplace, your shops, your whole life. Russia would then be in charge and as the 'conquered people' life wouldn't be much fun. Plus Russia's control would now extend to the Eastern edge of mainland Europe and if everyone there felt the same as you the march West would continue unchecked. Life as you know it now would not exist nor the future you may have imagined for your children/grandchildren or even just for yourself. The idea that if you don't fight then nothing bad would happen to you or yours is fantasy. All choices have consequences.

Which is what I have said numerous times so I'm glad you agree!

Of course its a thing but whether or not its a viable option depends on who you are fighting.

And of course a soldier at your front door who wants to kill your family is very different to canon fodder on the front line.

Good point. I don't think anyone is pretending it isn't a thing but rather working on the assumption that surrender sits somewhere in the 'least preferred' category, just above 'death'.

@Natsku has expressed my sentiment faster and more succinctly than I could.
I'm not arguing that the social contract is not broken, but rather that social contract or not will be neither here nor there in terms of outcomes, were we to face a serious threat of ground invasion.
And I absolutely hear DeathlyGreenAngel and generations of young people in the UK who are really struggling. There are some very radical reforms to housing in particular needed in Britain, and we can all put our shoulders to the door to seek to help bring these about.

But there are options between fighting & death. Why are people pretending surrendering isn't a thing!

I can understand young people in the UK feeling like the social contract has been broken and not seeing a reason to fight for a (series of) government(s) that constantly let them down but you realise in an invasion you aren't fighting for a government that doesn't care about you, you're fighting for your home, for your family, your friends, your neighbours, and your own lives.

Not wanting to fight for your country carrying out an offensive war elsewhere is one thing (and something I agree with wholeheartedly) but not wanting to fight a defensive war in your own country is something else.

For me collectively it means across all of society but many don't even acknowledge how young people feel.