Which of your children would take up arms if need be to defend their country

War isn’t futile though is it, if there hadn’t been an organised resistance against the Nazis Europe may look very different today. The americans fought a war of independence against the British. It can change the course of history.

I don’t get this, I’m a second gen immigrant, probably could go to my country of origin and definitely have family across several countries that would put me up but I wouldn’t want to be forced from my home, I wouldn’t want to be subject to an occupation. As much as I may despise the government of the day at least I can vote them out. Becoming an occupied peoples sounds shit.

I can empathise with this comment.
Wars are generally started/declared by a country's leaders, (usually men), who have no intention whatsoever of actually putting their own life on the line. Oh no - they order their "subjects" to do their dirty work for them.
I don't agree with enforced National Service or conscription.
Putin decided to invade Ukraine, but remains heavily protected and living in luxury, whilst "mobilising", (meaning forcing), ill-equipped and poorly-trained Russian men to be used as cannon fodder and to be literally slaughtered for the sake of his pathetic ego. They have no choice. Putin does.
Yes, warfare is conducted in many forms, but the bottom line remains that it's ordinary men who are conscripted by their country's leaders, and ordinary men, women, and children who suffer the consequences.
So no - I'm not of an age where I'd be called on to fight or do anything, but if I could stop my young adult kids from being forcibly conscripted, I would.
Selfish? Maybe.
And when asked the inevitable question as to who should, in that case, be forced to defend me and my kids if they refuse to fight and hope that someone else will do it, I accept that I don't have the answer. It really is a dilemma when you are totally opposed to war which you have no say in and disagree with.
I would like to see all countries devise and belong to a convention which would make it absolutely mandatory for mediated peaceful negotiations to take place when war is threatened.
I think the NATO Alliance already espouses this issue, but not all countries are in NATO - Russia isn't.
And I realise that's a naive and idealistic suggestion......

Which hotel and which NHS area?

It’s a myth that it’s ‘good and right to die for one’s country’. It’s what the elite told the working class knowing those proud men would be killed fighting a pointless war.

I will always honoured those fallen; and so will my children, but I’d not think that the country would unite in the way of the first or second world wars again.

Having said that, both my sons study history and are 100% aware of the futility of war, yet I’ve no doubt they’d both sign up,

Versus rapist murdering kidnappers in Hamas mode, probably all. Versus Russian invasion, all. Versus....well it's hard to know versus who, because we feel very safe in the UK. But everything is so terrible at the moment it's not possible to predict who's going to declare war on who is it? Probably we'll all be wiped out in a nuclear holocaust before making the decision. What on earth can we do to create a saner world?

I'm born and bred Northern Ireland person and lived through the Troubles. Saw the devastation it caused and some terrible atrocities still live with me to this day and feel like they only happened yesterday. Really feel was all the loss of life including you soldiers worth it? No way I'd want my children fighting for ANY cause.

"they" want to come here because we speak English.

If the populations of Britain and France swapped places, "they" wouldn't get past Marseilles .....

And you believed him?

Because most are economic migrants mot fleeing war. France, Germany etc are not at war and are therefore ‘safe’ countries- they want to come here because we give them everything for free. I work in the nhs and 3 days after a local hotel was filled with 300 boat migrants, one was booking in for a hospital appointment whereas I’ve been told I have to wait 55 weeks just to see a consultant. Another one of these men told me they have their own doctor at the hotel, ie private health care.

So many people say they wouldn't fight for their country. That's with an intact Govt and the resources to fight.
Then complain when men from other woman torn countries flee their homeland, with no real access to weapons, armour and about 4 waring sides, pick the a losing side, youre in trouble afterwards.

More people would fight than they say, once they realise the reality of having another army running the country, Badly. Looting shops, killing innocent people. As that's generally what happens.

I did. Mine would.

In reality two of them can’t on medical grounds but if that wasn’t an issue they would.
Although I don’t know I’d want them to. As my eldest creeps closer to adulthood I’m beginning to understand the fear my parents must have felt.

I have two preteen / just-teen boys, and the eldest is a cracking shot with his dad’s air gun and loves war films so he’d be jumping at the chance. The youngest would follow his brother loyally anywhere and has the chaos of a second child on his side, so that would be both of mine gone! My husband would fight out of a sense of duty despite being the wrong side of 40, whereas I would quietly opt to stay home and tend the farm (the country would have to live off eggs and homegrown veg though as I know nothing about the crops or cattle!). My nieces wouldn’t be bothered getting off social media long enough to get involved, my brother would be too afraid, but I reckon my 80 year old Dad would be squeezing into a uniform and marching ‘pon the enemy with his grandsons. My grandma is almost 100 but terribly fierce, we’d have to persuade her to stay at home….

Because if they make the journey to seek asylum then they can bring their families to safety whereas if they stayed behind they’d be more likely to all end up dead.

Often they’re escaping persecution from their own government or there isn’t an army to join up and fight for so it’s a different scenario to the one OP is suggesting. Many Ukrainians DID come over here for safety. They just didn’t have to risk life and limb to to get here the way those on the boats do. Do you honestly think it’s an easy way out?!

What is even more surprising - I used to work at a large multinational (retired just before Christmas), there were a lot of Russians, many of them living in London for a number of years means having access to all info/media. Educated people. They still supported the war in Ukraine.

There are variations of a meme doing the round that go:

"You know how in the 80s we thought that access to knowledge would solve our problems ? Turned out we were wrong."

I think for the sake of balance, we really need to accommodate the views of people who disagree.

Well this hypothetical thread has moved closer to realities, with the UK and American government supporting Israel against Iran.
I wonder what Russia will do now.
It is like a game of chess, only the blood of real people, lives are at stake by the old rich angry men.

DD wouldn’t. Given how “quirky” and clumsy she is, it would probably be safer that way for everyone involved.

OH probably would if they’d take him (he has some health issues).

Out of 144m?
How many of them only left after announcement of conscription? so not exactly because of political reasons.

Two of my sons are in the army. Reading this thread is seriously making me question what / who they are defending.

I get the disenfranchisement and how many or the elites are asset hoarding/ stripping us and our young people of their futures to grow, prosper not just financially. I to would like to give the willy waving war mongers a gun each so they can finish each other off.

The biggest test i think, is our own social cohesion or lack thereof, that this thread demonstrates. Thinking back to my grandparents generation there was a much more unified response, or at least in the main to defend ourselves from the nazis. There was also a greater need for housing, the NHS was born, people felt they "deserved better" perhaps those in authority also did give some concession to this?

Fully agree with a previous poster that we are being poked. We need to be so aware of the threats from russia china and Iran also the orange turd and their attempts to create division between us.

Russia: opinion on military actions in Ukraine 2025| Statista

Many other sources align with it.

What is even more surprising - I used to work at a large multinational (retired just before Christmas), there were a lot of Russians, many of them living in London for a number of years means having access to all info/media. Educated people. They still supported the war in Ukraine. Probably a bit scared to say it loudly, but they repeated all that nonsense about Ukraine being part of Russia and that Ukraine was preparing to attack first.

ETA: if you listen carefully to so called Russian opposition, e.g. Yulia Navalna, they are calling to stop supporting Ukraine so "their" boys stop dying. Same as Putin. Not to f..k off from Ukrainian land.

That’s the number of people who came here in 2023 which politicians didn’t seem to have a problem with with

Wikipedia says 800, 000 to a million left.

Where did you read that figure?

You'd be surprised. More than 75% of Russian population support this war. And not everyone with money left. By far. People still very much enjoy themselves, go on holidays etc.

Yes, have assumed OP is also from UK. So yes. We’re/the Uk is an island. Our main threat is not from troops on the ground arriving on our shores - which the history of the last 200+ years has shown - but is currently from airborne missiles [such as those being launched in Iran, Russia, Ukraine and so on] and cyber attacks [again, such as those of the attacks against M&S and multiple other corporations in recent months].

We don’t need 17yo’s doing basic army training. We don’t have a huge navy or airforce any more which we need to man [in fact, the training involved to do so, is more than ‘basic’ as our navy and airforce require highly trained personnel]. In the short and immediate term we need people who can work in the defence network - building/designing arms and working on countering cyber attacks.

Am not sure what clever point you were making in your last sentence - clearly if Russia or anyone else directed their missiles and drones at the Uk blood will be spilt, but training teenagers to run an assault course and shoot rifles will do fuck all in that scenario… hence the need to use technology to mitigate and prevent such attacks.

This is 2025, not 1914.