To feel completely betrayed by staff member

OP, when you run a business this happens — particularly if you don't pay people well enough, or when you expect too much. Are these women actually employees with contracts, or are they self-employed on zero hours contracts? Check your contract to see what it says.

Back in 2008 I worked for one of the first companies that started installing solar PV panels on ordinary houses. We were really ground-breaking at that time. The owners recruited people, trained them up to install the systems and paid and treated them well, but gradually as the market expanded all those employees started to see that they could make more money by starting their own companies, and off they went — and some of them took clients with them. This is how things work. It's business.

You've used your initiative to start your own business. Why shouldn't they? You should, in your business, always be recruiting and always be training — and never taking anyone for granted. If you regularly ask them to work longer hours or do extra at short notice you might want to think again about that. Have they been feeling exploited?

Call a meeting say you are doing an audit so they need to bring all keys and equipment - take it all and tell them they are fired for gross misconduct and you are considering legal action

I would be furious. This is your business. What do their employment contracts say?
You need to take them to court for this. It’s not acceptable.
Sorry to hear you are going through this.

Maybe when you confront Ann you could put the wind up her by asking her if she had insurance against damage or injury?

Or more to the point (I am assuming, of course, that you do have insurances) I would contact all your clients, past and present, and tell them that you have become aware that some "competitors" in the market are not properly insured etc., and you want to reassure them that you are an established business with insurance, fully paid up and declared taxes etc.

Does your contract not have a do not compete clause or solicitation clause? If not not, it may be worth putting in going forward.

My work contact has about 5 sections of these in different ways.

Unfortunately cleaning business don't lend well to scale for this reason.

Its generally cheaper & more tax efficient for the customer to pay the cleaner directly and thats who their relationship is with. Also the "top" cleaner who started the business often isn't actually properly employing the staff themselves (eg doesn't have them on formal contracts, paying NICs & paid holiday etc), its more like a gangmaster subcontracting out work to other self employed women. It can be perceived by customers that the top woman doesn't add a lot and its not worth the pound or two she takes per hour.

This makes it very vulnerable to new cleaners simply taking the clients, especially any you haven't built up a reputation with directly yourself.

My cleaner has got around this to a degree by:

• rotating staff around so they don't always clean the same place & she sees all customers once every three weeks
• never sharing customer contact details with staff - she does all customer contact & billing herself

You need to confront them unfortunately

What were the reasons your clients were giving you for leaving? Did you talk with them, did you return their keys to them?

It is very easy for the cleaner to say oh I can do the same job cheaper for you cash in hand and then it is up to the client. I don't think its the same as an employee accessing their data and using that.

Different story if the clients still think that your company is who their contract is with, verbal or written. It sounds like she is stealing your business by stealth.

That’s so shit, I feel for you OP.

This from google : The line between legality and illegality when dealing with a former employee poaching clients from your company lies with the contractual agreement signed by the former employee. Outside of that, there is nothing a business owner can do through legal action, save for a few circumstances.

I also now have to sack them, I’m so upset to lose them as members of staff.

Why? They’re workshy thieves who have taken advantage of you time and time again! Why on earth would you be upset to lose them?!

This is really good advice re the keys!

Seeing as they have your customers keys and you’re concerned about this aspect, I would actually see a solicitor pretty swiftly and have advise you. I think perhaps a legal communication might scare them into giving the keys back and backing off. You could also get some advice on officially terminating their employment.

How awful! Sending you a hand hold OP, you must feel blindsided.

I would spend tomorrow collecting evidence - go to this client’s house and take photos and videos.

Call your clients Ann has worked with and say that you were sorry to lose them as a customer. Unfortunately you have reason to believe that Ann and her daughter have been commiting theft and fraud by using your cleaning products and client list to provide services directly to your clients and accept the money personally, on time that they are being paid by you. I’d ask them if they had any issues with them and if that’s the reason why they didn’t want your cleaning services anymore, or if they think they could be an unknowing participant in the fraud, because if that’s a case then you apologise and will offer them a temporary discount to return to you as a customer with a more trustworthy member of cleaning staff.

They might not take you up on your offer but worth a try!

I’d also warn current clients that unfortunately you have let Ann and her daughter go due to theft from the business.

Once you have evidence I would ask the police for advice on whether this is a criminal matter - keeping the client’s keys which were entrusted to YOUR business is theft. Perhaps Citizen’s Advice could also advise you on civil action.

Do they have a contract with a non-compete cause in it?

I bet they've not bothered about trivial things like insurance......

So sorry to hear @BurpeesAllTheWay it’s a real kick in the gut!

Gather evidence first - speak to ex-clients and then speak to the 2 traitors together once you’ve taken hr/legal advice on what to do. The customer keys are the main issue!

Does your business insurance have a legal helpline you can speak to for advice?

Sadly a very common occurrence in small businesses where the staff are the ones who build the relationship with the client and the ‘big bad boss’ just sits around and counts all the money rolling in!

This happened to me, but I was the customer. I used to employ a firm of window cleaners for regular cleaning. One of them one evening dropped by and handed me a leaflet with his number on it, but still the same name of the company, and said that due to “payroll changes” I would now have to pay in cash after each visit and to cancel the standing order I had in place. I thought it was dodgy and asked him if the company insurance had changed as well. He looked puzzled and I asked him that if, for example, his ladder fell on my car, what was the insurance arrangement. He did look a bit concerned about that. I called the company the next day and of course they knew nothing about the arrangement he was proposing and were very annoyed that was still using their name on his flyer. Never saw him again.

Maybe when you confront Ann you could put the wind up her by asking her if she had insurance against damage or injury?

I would tread carefully until you get the keys back b/c if they refuse it will make you look unprofessional to clients which could make you lose customers. You may have to replace all their locks if you can't get the keys back, at a cost to you/your company.

I would tell Ann & daughter that you have a company change in policy for insurance reasons and all keys need to be stored in a safe and you will distribute in advance of cleaning. Get them back and then confront, with evidence if you can.

I wouldn't get emotional with them, keep it professional and document everything. I would have a witness on any email correspondence or in person meetings.

Good luck. They really took advantage.

The tricky thing with this is that the clients in question get to decide who cleans their house. If they want that person to be Ann then so be it.
But it's a shit situation.

Depending on the answer, I’d find someone else to do their job. Are they on a zero hours contract? Is stealing your clients a breach of their contract

point Out you saw her loading your cleaning equipment into a car outside of the ex clients house. Ask her what’s going on.

You need to tell her to get her own clients if she wants to run her own business and not to seal your clients.

That’s awful. Unfortunately you are going to have to let them both go - is there anything in their contracts about taking your clients?

This happened to my gardener a while ago, he called all of his clients including me to say that one of the guys who worked for him had left and started contacting his clients to book in work - all the one’s that paid cash - and was pretending to still work for him. I felt really sorry for him, he sounded really stressed but I really appreciated to call and knowing what had happened would never employ the other guy if he had contacted me.

I suspect they are undercutting your rate and you may not get the clients back they have taken but I’d recommend doing what my gardener did and contact everyone else, tell all your clients what has happened, people don’t like dishonesty, especially from people who come into your home!