Crazy religious ex husband

I think he has scrupulosity type ocd and maybe you shouldn’t collude with it. He needs some cbt.

I wouldn't expect any of my dc to pray the Rosary. Fastest route to making them hate it. They have decade bracelets. They know about it. That's it.

Beg him to stop and get him to talk to ds and say its just something he loves so much and he wants to share it with him but he's sorry if he's made it too big a deal.

Your ds has to find his own way to faith. Your ex attitude is very damaging.

I strongly dispute that the craic is better in Knock (after too many childhood parish pilgrimages there in a minibus full of feral altarboys), but there is, of course a useful small airport which was originally intended to facilitate pilgrimages, but whose summer destinations, as well as Lourdes and Fatima, include Malaga, Lanzarote, Tenerife and Alicante.

Your ex is absolutely adamant that he and only he is able to decide what is best for your son. He also absolutely loathes you and completely disagrees with your parenting style.

Can't you see what he will do and say to your ds if he has enough time alone with him? He'll brainwash the poor child into thinking that you are the devil incarnate and only his dad knows what's best for him.

And to a pp who said that Mumsnet hates religion - a lot of us on this thread are practicing Christians. No doubt there are posters of other faiths too (and none) and all of us are saying the same thing. The man is a dangerous nutter and the OP needs to protect her child. At the end of the day, this is not a religious issue.

Agree. However to quote my mum and her mates, it’s cheaper and the wine is better so on that basis it beats Fatima. The craic is good at Knock if you know where to look, apparently.

That’s how he gets around the communion issue - by pretending he’s still married in his head.

Are you actually divorced or just separated?

Our local church had a splinter group based on Opus Dei but the new priest got shot of them.

I accidentally ended up at Lourdes a few years ago, when on holiday in the Gers, and as an atheist cradle Catholic, found it surprisingly touching how the town centred the needs of ill and disabled visitors. Though what I really wanted to do was poke around the Bureau des Constatations Medicales, which investigates ‘miracle’ cures.

Medugorje is a massive scam. Unlike Lourdes and Fatima, where the visionaries didn’t gain anything and died young. The ones at Medjugorje are raking it in. (Disclaimer, I go to Lourdes every year)

Excellent explanation

Why would you gain anything from it? It’s a particularly clear case of some poor children at a difficult time in their country’s history, when fractures were emerging along ethnic and hence religious lines after Tito’s death, got a huge amount of attention and power from claiming to have received Marian apparitions and messages, and Medjugorje became a symbol of Croat nationalism and resistance to Yugoslav Communist state power.

And, all these years later, those ‘visionaries’ are still benefiting from the ‘visions’ through benefiting from religious tourism they attract. For an otherwise undistinguished village, it gets more overnight tourist stays than anywhere else in Bosnia Herzegovina.

It’s not that there’s some spiritual essence you failed to grasp there, OP. Even now that the Vatican has ‘authorised’ pilgrimages there, it has specifically said that it is in no way authenticating the supposed visions.

Erm… they actually expect their children to be exhausted while fasting through school. Or sleep randomly at school. That sounds pretty disruptive. Girls are made to wear head covers for religious reasons they aren’t old enough to sign up for. Not to mention how Christian kids here are expected to happily celebrate and participate in other religious holidays while other religions refuse their kids to join in. There is definitely a double standard between Christians and if someone is more obviously religious as a Christian people scream crazy but with other religions they rush to defend and not offend. I just find it weird.

and the idea Muslims don’t try to force people around them to join in or alter their behaviour is utterly laughable.

I guessed because I work with a lot of people who have been to Medjugorje. They've all come back really fervent, even if they weren't before, praying the Rosary multiple times a day, going to extra Masses and so on and so forth. Their way is the right way etc.

It's a cult. All the "Medjugorje people" I know would disagree with me but they go about trying to convert people (ie. ordinary Catholics) to their version of Catholicism. The rest of us are just "play-acting" at Catholicism (I've been told). We need to repent and turn back to God, pray the Rosary, go to confession, pray to the Archangel Michael to protect us from Satan etc.

I'm surprised he's gone to TLM after a Medjugorje "conversion" (which is what they call it) as normally they'd continue to go to mainstream Catholic churches while trying to persuade others to get on board with the Medjugorje thing.

You can find quite a lot of information about it online.

The difference is that Muslims who observe daily prayer rituals a) do not remove their children from school to do it, b) do not try to force the people around them to do it and c) do not do it because they saw ‘an apparition’. They simply observe it in the same way that practising Catholics observe, eg, Communion. There is a big difference between Islamic daily prayers and what the OP’s ex is doing.

Also, when a Muslim starts to become more and more extreme and obsessive, people absolutely do assume either mental breakdown or, in fact, radicalisation. That can see them reported to the police.

If a Muslim father suddenly started behaving towards his child like this, claiming he’d seen apparitions and removing him from school, I can assure you that it would absolutely be considered a concern by people around him, including most other Muslims.

You're going to get a lot of sympathy here as mumsnet hates religion.

The thing is that 20 minutes is a fairly quick whip through of the Rosary. It takes me 45 mins when I swim and pray (though I do get distracted).

I suggest a different tack:

"Ex we are both Catholic and I'm happy to raise ds in the faith but you run the risk of putting him off if you force too extreme and too much church and praying on ds. It's really important to help him find his own relationship with God. I know you've got your ideas and I absolutely want you to pray and worship as you want but I've got some suggestions for how you could make the faith more accessible for ds:"

Suggestions could include getting a child's book on the Rosary and talking ds through the mysteries. Getting him his own beads. I like the prayer bracelet kind which is 10 beads for the HM plus beads for the AF and the GB.

Suggest he takes ds to mass in English and finds a ni ce church community to give DS a taste of why Catholicismcan be a great blessing. Does ds go to Catholic school? Could ex take DS to church where he might see some school friends and where they have tea and biccies after.

Suggest he keeps holy Friday for himself and not take DS. He absolutely needs his own time to pray and connect with God. Could he go to Latin mass on a Friday to get that benefit then if he values traditional liturgy. Otherwise if Latin mass has to be on a Sunday then maybe do it without DS but Fridays should be for him. His ds doesn't need to go.

Try and gently get him to ease off in tge guise of "you want ds to embrace the faith don't you? In which case you can't force too much religiosity on him.hes only young now but one day he will have to walk in faith alone and 40 minutes of Rosary at the weekend, an hour driving to and from Sunday mass, attending a mass he can't understand and his dad being too strict about everything will put him off.

Good luck. I hope your ex calms down.

@LavenderfarmcottageCatholic here (not practicing but comes from a family who does) and this is not normal at all. I am concerned you are minimising this and the violence and his misogynistic and cult like behaviour. My advice to you would be to seek advice from a priest in a common and garden Catholic Church although I’m not sure how helpful they would be. You also need to get some legal advice and I’d point you to Women’s Aid.

Further, he may not agree to divorce but you can and should divorce him. I’d be very wary of subjecting your son to any more of this behaviour because he will try and indoctrinate him. I’m not saying people shouldn’t have a faith, that’s an entirely personal choice but this is batshit, frankly.

I’d say be led by your son- he doesn’t want to see his dad and it suggests he isn’t comfortable

Yes, I agree.

And this: "He then continued praying without me in a high pitch semi crying sulking voice" - is not prayer

I'm worried that you are minimising this situation OP.

Your ex was sometimes violent but its somehow your fault for not leaving earlier, and it's not really his fault as he was stressed and may be neurodiverse. None of this on you. Whether he was stressed or ND or not, its never OK to be violent or aggressive in a relationship. Under any circumstances.

If he was otherwise an OK father and your son enjoyed seeing him, then carefully building a limited relationship may be beneficial for your son. But at the moment it appears that your son is sometimes in the care of an increasingly unstable, misogynistic religious fanatic with a history of violence and a pattern of emotional manipulationtowards your son, who doesnt seem to enjoy their time together. And I can't how this can ever be a good thing.

So would I.
He’s deranged with a history of violence. Your child isn’t safe.
OP don’t use “work stress” to excuse violence. I’ve had some very stressful jobs and I’ve never hit anyone.

Write it all out.

Why you left him.

All abusive behaviours - verbal, emotional, physical etc.

His change in personality.

His attempting to manipulate your child, removing him from school, imposing prayer regimes that your child is finding too much.

His odd behaviours - everything you noticed from the shutting down and inability to communicate to the weird high pitched voice.

Let the school know you are concerned for your child's safety (because I think we are) and that he must not be allowed to take without your permission.

I'm assuming you're in the UK? Get some solicitor advice re your rights around divorce. Many do a free session. He doesn't get to keep you against your will.

Let's leave religion out of this for the moment.

You left him because he has been violent to you in the past. The man is mentally unstable and is doing some very unusual ritualistic things, and your child very wisely does not want to spend time with him.

Violent, unstable, manipulative people who have any kind of obsession or are following any kind of cult can be very dangerous people indeed.

You will be putting your child (and yourself come to that) at serious risk of harm if you continue to allow any contact.