Family feud

She said in the OP it had been the family home for 50 years, everyone seems to have assumed that meant she'd bought it. I think she means it's the wider family home, as in her childhood home with her parents and siblings.

She does own it and has for some time, she's said so.

@ThatDaringEagle
My point is simply that it’s been mutually convenient for him and his mother and I can’t understand how he hasn’t accumulated significant savings over 20 years of not paying rent or a mortgage. For most of us, those payments over 20 years would amount to tens of thousands.

i think that there must be a back story that the OP hasn’t shared. She says that he works long hours as well so his financial situation, I.e., not being able to afford to buy or rent somewhere, doesn’t make sense.

"Caring for her is probably quite recent, tbh, he’s unlikely to have been shouldering the responsibility for years. ..."

If she now needs someone to come in to give her 3 meals a day at home, while the DB is at work, it's probably not been quite recent at all. More likely a steady decline over the past decade or more. So the DB has most likely been their mother's part time carer, overnight back up & weekend carer for the past decade or more. (That's 10 years part time work...)

In addition, he has being paying the bills there, and likely been handyman, security & great company for his mum for the ~20years, while living in her & his home.

This is still his home. He has paid towards it, he's worked in it and he's lived in it for 20 years. I'm pretty certain he's legally entitled to it also, after his mother's caring costs are taken care of. The OP should tread very carefully imho, if he seeks legal advice, he'll be favoured imho & it could blow up all their scheming in their faces & be a very costly experience for all involved.

Perhaps suggesting a lodger to live in the house & to pay towards her mum's costs & the balance going to herself & her sister for the next few years if he's agreeable to that. In the longer term, he should probably be allowed to live their for life (or when he wishes to move) and then, and only then, split the sale then between him or his children on death & herself & her sister or their estates/ living children at that time.

They probably need a legal mediator imho to work out a fair & equitable deal.

P.s. " I don’t really understand why he hasn’t considered his longterm living arrangement in all this time, surely he knew that the house belonged to you."

Firstly the house does not belong to the OP. Yes, she is listed on the title, but that is only out of circumstance, to avoid care costs for her mum & creditors of her DB. She did not pay for the house & has not yet been bequeath it. Yet she quite clearly thinks it's already hers!! And she's acting like that, hence the 'family feud'!
Further, her brother lives there, contributes to the house & has done for 20 years, with possibly 10 of those being as a part time carer to their aging & deteriorating mother.

Perhaps he incorrectly assumed he would get some credit for this great contribution & effort by him from his sister(s), and didn't expect her to act like a self centred, cold hearted, b!tch who'd dare to evict him from his home of 20 years at the very first opportunity?!

I'm confused. Do you own the house your mum lives in with your brother? If so, how did that come about? If you do not own it you are a bit previous to think about selling it and splitting the proceeds as Mum is still alive and so the sale proceeds would be totally hers.

If it's a family home then I don't understand why he needs such a big place to himself anyway. Especially if he's short on money, how will he afford to run/upkeep the house?

According to chat cpt, it can cost between 2000-4000 euro to legally inherit and sell a €20,000 flat in Greece, especially if you're a non-resident. Only worth doing it if it will actually sell. If it's in a useless area, or very dilapidated, it may be extremely hard to get rid of.

Your brother sounds vulnerable OP. I would be fighting to keep him in the house. Turfing him out at his age, and at time when housing costs are off the roof is unbelievably cruel. I don't believe you will have many blessings in life if this is how your mind works as what goes around always comes back.

Re. The caring aspect. I completely agree that the brother living with their failing mother has been v. helpful lately and saved the OP and her sister a lot of stress.

But, as their mother is under 80, she was only 58/59 when he first moved in. Caring for her is probably quite recent, tbh, he’s unlikely to have been shouldering the responsibility for years. I don’t really understand why he hasn’t considered his longterm living arrangement in all this time, surely he knew that the house belonged to you.

So he essentially was in the house living with your mother for years, very convenient not just for him and for your mother but for you and your sister too. But now you want to sell the house and make him homeless essentially. Serms particularly hardhearted given both you and your sister have no mortgage etc.

Also, the way you describe the house as bring in your name, I'd check the actual legality of that before you proceed. Seems like it may be illegally avoiding paying for care.

What would your mother think? Would she be happy at you throwing your brother out🤔

This is deprivation of assets. This is the reason why some people are paying £8K a month care to subsidise those who evade paying for their own care. OP you already have your own house mortgage free. That house should be used to pay your Mums care, otherwise you are effectively defrauding the government and also all the other residents who are paying for their care.

I feel sorry for your brother, he has been a support for your Mum and is now working full time with broken sleep every night. I don’t know if he would be eligible for sheltered accommodation in your area but at 60 plus it’s feasible. The money from your mums house is not yours to play with.

He’s lives rent free for 20 years and hasn’t saved money. So yes, feckless.

On thinking further, there are also repercussions to being a landlord which you need to take into consideration. Additionally, the rental market is going to change considerably in the next few years due to legislation changes making being a landlord unappealing, and laws that come into play in 2030 which in some cases will make it impossible.

Rents will increase hugely.

@OneQuickPeachCat you need to engage an accountant who specialises in this area. If the house was gifted to you, but your mum and your brother have lived there rent free, there are tax implications.

Then you need to separate what a moral decision might look like, and what a legal decision might look like. Once you are in possession of all those facts, you can decide which path to tread that balances those aspects.

I agree with previous poster that it largely depends of the background of why this house is in your name. I assume your parents paid for it, so although legally yours you didn't pay for it, so I would think of it as hers. She had him living with her, so if she was still of sound mind, I assume that would still be the case.

I would consider whether your brother can stay there with a lodger to help pay your mums bills?

He does need to come up with a plan for what happens further down the line however.

Wow you sound quite heartless and horrible.

I would never kick my own brother out under these circumstances. Why not let him stay and pay you rent?

Firstly your mother is going to hugely decline if you put her in a care home. Caring for them at home is the best thing with Dementia as the surrounding is familiar despite the issues.

Secondly any proceeds should be used for funding of her care.

You sound callous and ungrateful

Feckless? He works full time and is a night time carer for their mother.

Have you taken Capital Gains Tax into consideration when you worked out these figures. As you have two houses in your name, this will definitely be subject to CGT.

I would advise that you speak to an accountant before dividing up the proceeds.

Mumsnet at its best. A genuinely out of the box idea x

Not a hope would I do this to my brother. I would leave her there and let it pass to my children when he passes

She probably could, but based on her OP I'd very much doubt that she wouldn't be so inclined imho. She already says she resents her brother for having lived with her mother 'mortgage free', while he looked after that mother well for 20 years well into her dotage & worked a full time job by day also. She clearly doesn't value the full role he has played in their mother's care, the value of this, and that this is the home he has shared with his mother for 20 years and contributed to consistently during that time.

I may be wrong, but if the DB goes to see a lawyer, they'll likely advise him to look for the house for himself after his mother is looked after. He looked after his mum there into her dotage, he's paid the bills & contributed there for many years, it's his & his mums home & he's lived there with her for ~20 years I.e. it (or the residue of it) should really now be his after his mum's care commitments have been looked after, imho. As a bare minimum he should be allowed to continue to live there imho.

God knows how the OP's name ended up on the deeds but it's apparent it was to avoid care cost commitments for their mother, & OP's hinted at trying to avoid previous bankruptcy/ insolvency issues for the DS , & her DB. So she wangled her way onto the deeds through circumstance, and now she wants to kick her care giving brother out of his & his mother's home, while sending her to a state paid care home. She's just lovely, isn't she!?

Could you sell the family home to your brother 150k less than it’s worth?

I agree

Assuming there isn’t a big back story, you can’t underestimate how much your brother has helped the rest of the family by living with your mum. Yes, there’s carers but they can only do so much. Knowing there’s a person there 24/7 must be a huge relief. If he wasn’t there, presumably your mum would have needed to have gone into care much sooner.

As others have said you need proper legal advice. It sounds like a very complicated set up. Once you know what you can do legally, I think that considering you and your sister are ‘living comfortably’, the least you can do is ensure your brother (who has put his life on hold to live with your mum) is well provided for - either by using the proceeds to buy him a flat (which he can pay rent on) or, as he requests, give him a couple of years in the house to transition into a new way of life.

Legally the op does need to take into account mum and brothers wishes and feelings re care hone placements.