To think “gentle parenting” is just a rebrand of being too afraid to say no?

Ok, so far I've got the idea that gentle parenting means explaining what a child's feelings might be along with telling them what they can and can't do.
I think that's too much talking for younger children, and often for older children I have to say, partly because I don't think we need to label a frustration at not getting sweets, or drag out negative situations.
But is there more? I see people saying "don't have too many boundaries so they will know the ones you have are serious".
But my DCs know that running in the road is "never, serious" and eating sweets after you've brushed your teeth is "you'll get told to go and brush them again and you might not get them tomorrow".

And I also see a lot of privilege. If your family is in temporary accommodation and you're worried about your children being put into care then being clean and tidy at school is an absolute must. You fear judgement and worse.

If you are a mildly hippy middle class family your child can go to school with uncut and unbrushed hair and you won't feel judged. You don't need to have that rule.

Same for Black families, who get more judged on even mildly poor behaviour, messy hair etc.

What have I missed, what else comes under what you would call "real gentle parenting"?

How ironically perfectly timed @healthyteeth 😜

I'm sorry you are dealing with that. I can only imagine.

Sometimes the 'rougher' kids are better disciplined than the very middle class ones who've been negotiating for hours on Meredith's decision to gauge her baby brothers eyes out and finally came to the conclusion that she may gauge just the one eye out to keep the peace.

Oh no this again 😩

Gentle parenting is NOT permissive parenting. See the difference op?

You'll get lots of responses on here saying 'thats not gentle parenting ' it's 'permissive' but in truth these days they equal the same thing.

A two year old is a toddler? A preschooler is 3+

For some children yes, but I would still say it or a version of. Of course it will develop according to the child's understanding. I was just trying to explain the difference in approach.

The examples people are giving are way longer than that.

And young two year olds are just about able to understand two concepts together like "Daddy's hat" or "no hitting".

No, but you are implying that your children are intelligent because of your direct actions (and therefore that if your child is ‘stupid’, which is a strange word for someone earnestly advocating treating children with respect) it is also because of a parents actions, or lack of.

As a teacher of 10 years, I think the problem comes when every little telling off, expectation, instruction is now open to negotiation by the parents and children. They forget it or ignore the fact that I don't have time to ask Felicity what her motivations and feelings were when she was chatting with her friend in class/scribbling on her book/called someone stupid. If I did that with everyone I'd have no time to teach! Minor issues become huge dramas. It's not just the usual 2/3 children with behaviour issues that causes me to claw my eyes out. It's the slow chip, chip away at my authority by parents who just don't trust what I say or do anymore. There are lower expectations by parents, children and SLT in general. I still love it in general, but so much of my time is wasted.

Preschoolers who are about to start school can absolutely understand a 4-5 word sentence 🤦‍♀️

My eldest wouldn’t have been at the same age but my youngest most definitely is capable. Neither are stupid - their communication just matured at different rates.

Why? Do we all have to pretend our children are stupid just to make others feel more comfortable?

It's just an anecdote about my children. They are who they are.
Mumsnet appealed to me because it was (or used to be) mainly used by a fairly well educated and intelligent group of women. I didnt realise I had to pretend my children were stupid to fit in now. I thought I left that shit behind at high school

"I know that made you cross but it's Timmy's turn now" is also way too much for that age.

Intended or not, this is lofty and supercilious.

Of course some children are capable of this. It might not be "the norm" but it doesn't mean there aren't plenty of children who can
Mine have stayed at top of the top set in their teens so it may be related to intelligence, but possibly also that I spoke to them lots and read them lots of stories.

This is the most MN post ever.

The ability of a preschool child varies wildly.

I wonder if that is why I found this style of parenting possible, because mine were capable of this kind of conversation long before they started school. They were both talking in sentences well before their second birthdays.

My son could discuss and understand (and explain to me) concepts like commensalism (thank you octonauts!) before he was three ( I know because we had that conversation at an aquarium before his sister was born)

I'm sure you believe that but they can say way more than they understand. You just carry on thinking you've given birth to a genius though. I'll read about children's actual capabilities, me.

So are we saying that gentle parenting would not be ‘I know you want an ice cream’? ‘I hear you’re very disappointed you’re not getting one.’ ‘I understand you really, really wanted that ice cream’?

Because yes, that’s exactly what gentle parenting is - but of course, anyone who does gentle parenting and finds that it doesn’t work for them is told ‘but that’s not gentle parenting!’ So obviously it works, if anyone it doesn’t work for is purportedly doing it all wrong!

I also think that’s fine.

I think though as children get older we can be a bit firmer. Something I have seen a lot of on gentle parenting groups is that children have no impulse control and therefore cannot be blamed or held responsible for their actions and I don’t think that’s true. I have a four year old and a (nearly) two year old. If my two year old pushed another child I’d say firmly ‘no, we don’t push our friends.’ If my four year old did it I would be firmer and a lot more disapproving. It isn’t doing him any favours to behave as if he’s somehow not in control of his actions at all.

However you also get the other extreme on here, where it’s rarely if ever acknowledged that mostly well behaved children can have their moments. I would say DS (4) is 70% lovely, 20% boisterous and silly and then a small minority of the time (often when feeling not 100%) he can be surly, sullen, rude, defiant and stroppy. He really isn’t like this most of the time and it’s pretty much always just aimed at me. I once posted for advice and some of the replies were helpful but some were awful, calling him names, telling me he’d meet his comeuppance in school (with barely concealed glee at the thought) and then many diagnosed him with autism, PDA, ADHD and various other things …

As with all things it’s about balance. There are times when it’s fine to be firm and times when it’s okay to listen and to redirect or to acknowledge the feelings.

(incidentally one massive issue I have with the SOS train of thought is how many parents think gentle parenting can be extended to gentle teaching )

youre confusing emotions and behaviour. Being disappointed about the ice cream is fine, whining for ages - behaviour isn’t. Gentle parenting isn’t indulging every behaviour under the guise of respecting emotions. It’s about respecting emotions whilst also controlling/correcting behaviour.

I don’t subscribe to any parenting narrative but would say I’m a gentle parent on the whole - or I aspire to be. It’s not going to look for the same for all kids. I approach my two children differently, but it’s not a different class or type of parenting, it’s just tailored to their needs and what works for them. Ie one child does NOT want comforting during a tantrum, there’s no point attempting discussion until he’s calm later on and totally over it. The other WILL want comfort shortly after the event and can discuss it much sooner. One can cope with being told no, the other needs to hear what you do want them to do.

I also doubt OP is a genuine poster - just looking for a rise.

This example is just engaging with a 2 year old in a developmentally inappropriate way. A 2 year old trying to take something just needs a "it's Timmy's turn, right now". If they protest the you acknowledge their feelings but reinforce the boundary. " I know this made you cross but it's Timmy's turn". Then distract. A permissive parent would waffle on for a bit and then just let them take it to keep them quiet. An authoritarian parent would just say no and then punish. The authoritarian approach sounds easier but doesn't help the child actually learn which is the point of discipline. It actually means 'to teach'.