To think “gentle parenting” is just a rebrand of being too afraid to say no?

Yep, many children & many teenagers through my work. I also have children myself & children who I am close to within my family & friendship groups. Thanks for clarifying though.

@drspouse

And I also see a lot of privilege. If your family is in temporary accommodation and you're worried about your children being put into care then being clean and tidy at school is an absolute must. You fear judgement and worse.

This is absolutely true. But again that doesn't mean there's never a place for compassion, empathy or discussion.

Because some families have a higher bar to clear in terms of societal judgement it doesn't follow that all families need to lean toward the most authoritarian solution possible in any discipline scenario.

There's a spectrum though isn't there? Obviously there have to be hard "no"s and there have to be behaviours which children know are off limits. With boundaries enforced and appropriate punishment to follow if those rules are broken. Anyone who thinks they can rationalise a preschooler out of throwing a tantrum is delusional.

But that doesn't preclude attempts to empathise with a child and to show that his or her feelings are valid, even if the behaviour won't be allowed.

I have to say no to my teen all the time (as all parents of teens do). And punish her if she breaks my rules. But I will sometimes explain my rationale and I will take her feelings into account.

It doesn't have to be a zero sum game where you're either a permissive, hippy parent who talks about "gentle hands" OR a Victorian authoritarian who whacks them for every minor misdemeanour. Most sensible parenting involves some fudges and compromises.

I think without knowing each child's history, that's a bit of a reach.

Your voice on this thread is excellent. Very interesting, insightful and thought provoking information. Thankyou for your contributions.

I think you raise some excellent points here.

That's sad to read 😕

I think you are confusing gentle parenting and permissive parenting. I gentle parent but say no and set boundaries every day.

.... don't get me started on permissive parenting though.....

This^
DS2 has ADHD and is very sensitive.
We gentle parent in terms of listening and taking into account his point of view. He’s an intelligent lad with some very good points of view and often persuasive arguments. He has “permission” to question my choices and decisions and disagree with them. We have heathy discussions about things, sometimes he’s right and I’ll change my view or decision. But he knows if I say no after discussion then the answers no and he’ll accept that as long as he feels heard.
He’s a very well adjusted, kind, compassionate and polite young man.

Have you met children?
Or Indeed teenagers and their mental health epidemic?

Nope. Everyone loves to slag off gentle parenting - I’ve found that it’s usually boomers or people who don’t have children themselves - however most people my age (millennials) including myself, practice gentle parenting & generally have kids who are good at regulating their emotions, expressing themselves & understanding boundaries.

I was just thinking that too. Very young children come out with words and phrases they don't understand because they imitate those around them. They can't foresee the implications of what they say. It's amazed and horrified me that some parents take what they say literally.

This whole idea is so relevant to the "your child is whatever they say they are" idea which in its extreme leads parents to agree their child is the opposite sex. I'm just listening to this:

https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/109-what-if-we-are-all-wrong-a-mothers-regret-with-rose/id1542655295?i=1000607827603

You deserve a medal. I can well believe it. When my children were at primary school in the late 1990s I remember a mother who was herself a teacher begging her daughter's class teacher to change her mind about making the daughter and her best friend sit at opposite sides of the class because, in spite of many warnings, they persisted in talking in class. I couldn't believe it. It sounds as if things have got steadily worse since then.

I think there's a lot of misunderstanding about what gentle parenting is and it often gets confused with permissive parenting. I would say we "gentle" parented in that when we said no or put a rule in place, we explained why, we validated feelings but not unacceptable behaviour, and we let DC have age appropriate choices and input. But we absolutely did use the word "no" and had clear boundaries and expectations, and were occasionally prepared to be unpopular and not rush to rescue them from their feelings. Experiencing natural consequences is important for social and emotional development. They both have SEN, so we had to distinguish between what was genuine dysregulation and not coping, and what was them testing boundaries, doing daft things, or disregarding instructions, like the time DS and his mate ruined his mate's parents' newly seeded lawn playing footy on it when they'd been told not to, and he wasn't allowed back until the lawn had been reseeded and recovered. That's a consequence of not respecting someone else's property, and was fair given the boys' ages at the time, I wasn't about to go storming in making excuses for him. But he didn't get any extra artificial punishment imposed by us, as the natural consequence was not being allowed to go to his mate's house.

We were careful when they were wee lads about not expecting things of them that they couldn't yet cope with adequately, pre-empting sensory overload, being prepared to leave things early rather than risk a meltdown, etc. I suppose some would think that's permissive parenting, but to us that was just sensible and pragmatic.

No teasing? Really? We have plenty of that across the generations in my family and we've all turned out fine. A lot of what I'm reading here sounds so earnest and humourless. I'm not talking about belittling, bullying or humiliating, I'm talking about learning to laugh at oneself, which I regard as an essential life skill.

This sounds way too much like being a doormat, but also very privileged.

I can't arrange my kids' lives so they are going to avoid situations of conflict. For a start, they are adopted and will probably never get to meet some birth family members they'd really like to get to know. One of them finds some kinds of learning very hard but has to try and try. Many families won't be able to meet all their children's needs at the same time.

I'd rather get my kids used to "no means no" than avoid saying no.

Everyone likes to be heard. You may feel that acknowledgement of feelings is not necessary but it's what makes the difference between a child hearing 'because I said so' and 'I understand and emphasise, but no'. The second, if done consistently fosters emotional intelligence which many adults are lacking.

You ask what else, I would say it's not doing things which no parent should anyway but some still do; belittle, humiliate, tease, take their own anger or frustration out on, illogical consequences, harsh punishment, over reliance on bribery, always giving in, never admitting they are wrong or made a mistake, shouting, aggression, because I said so etc, too many choices.
All seems like just be a good parent yeah? Because it is. That's why everyone gets so frustrated.

Indeed. Saying yes all the time is permissive parenting.

Though certain things may feature in both styles such as kindness and connection, the major difference is that one has no boundaries or limits and one does.

Gentle Parenting is absolutely appalling and should be made illegal. How any parent could treat their child with respect while enforcing boundaries and teaching them what emotions they’re feeling and how to deal with them so they can navigate the world with self-confidence while treating the people they meet along the way with respect and kindness is beyond me!

It’s tantamount to abuse….

🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄

I've spent most of my teaching career in very deprived areas. You absolutely deal with some fucking insane difficult parents there, but by far the worst school I've had for petty, vindictive, entitled parents on a day-to-day was at a leafy, no uniform, kids-call-you-by-your-first-name school. I had a group of bullies mums on an absolute campaign against me and it was an awful time. WhatsApp group all calling me horrible names and coordinating letters/emails to the head.

The crime? I presented the Queen Bee parent with evidence that in fact her child had been bullying another girl by putting notes in her backpack such as 'your mum's poor', throwing things at her when my back was turned and encouraging other children to exclude her. Suddenly it's all flipped around and the QBs child is being bullied, and hadn't I remembered that this child had called her a name 2 years ago?! Children in leafy places are far more likely to 'do no wrong'.

This bit “…children should be treated with kindness and due consideration for their feelings. I think wherever possible life should be arranged so the 'no's' are kept to a minimum, by avoiding situations where their wishes and yours will conflict and not having too many rules and restrictions about trivial things. Where that isn't possible I think a firm no with an age appropriate reason is sufficient” is Gentle Parenting, the rest is not.

There's a lot of "this isn't GP, neither is this" but little of what it IS.
@SquashedMallow in US studies it's the Black families who have to be more authoritarian with their children because life doesn't ever give them a second chance, they have to listen to authority the first time or in some cases.

If you are gentle parenting by just saying yes all the time you have missed the point of gentle parenting.

Haha yes 😜

They don’t equal the same thing though. Care to explain why you disagree?