To think “gentle parenting” is just a rebrand of being too afraid to say no?

I don’t call myself any sort of parent title.
I’m just doing my best. DS seems happy.

Agree with this. I think being emotionally responsive and understanding over life's big disappointments is absolutely appropriate. But I think the sweets example, when repeated over every minor thing may just be teaching them that small issues are a bigger deal than they really are. Kids look to adults to teach them appropriate reactions. Maybe jollying them along and distracting them is actually more helpful than agreeing with them that it's disappointing which reinforces that it's disappointing rather than no big deal.

Saying something like 'we're not getting sweets in the shop today, I know that's disappointing' and giving a hug and carrying on would be gentle parenting. Saying 'for god sake stop asking about effing sweets or you'll get a clip round the ear' isn't.

I know it's just one example but really, there are more ways than this to respond to a child. I am a kind person and have a very good relationship with my now adult children. I would not, however, have hugged them and told them how sorry I was about their disappointment in a shop if I'd had to say no, we're not getting that today. I would just have said it and carried on, looking for something to distract them with or talking about something else.

Mind you, I would clearly fail the gentle parenting test on a great many grounds. An often heard remark in our house was 'Enn Oh spells no.' My children understood this very well from an early age and have not grown up emotionally stunted because we failed to sit down and talk over every minor disappointment.

Of course they are still good parents, saying no is often necessary, that doesn't go against gentle parenting principles. Saying something like 'we're not getting sweets in the shop today, I know that's disappointing' and giving a hug and carrying on would be gentle parenting. Saying 'for god sake stop asking about effing sweets or you'll get a clip round the ear' isn't. It's all in communicating kindly to kids. Poverty doesn't stop that.

I will caveat that by saying poverty can make it SO MUCH HARDER to be gentle, stress and worry makes it so much harder not to be reactive and we're all human. My mother was this amazing woman and mother who was in an impossible situation who put her life into raising 5 children with kidnest and love and respect. Unfortunately thwarted by my abusive dad and constant grinding poverty (and 5 kids in a catholic Ireland where no prevention was allowed) and she did her best. She was at times not gentle. But she tried all the time and was always aiming to take us for individuals. She died 12 yes ago and I'll never be over her. But with all the privilege in my peaceful, financially stable world I try to do better and follow her principles. I'd definitely say she was a gentle parent but one under strain. And any parents going through that and trying but struggling should know my mum was the most loved mother I've ever met. And she made mistakes but tried so hard. It's not the small moments where it all goes wrong that define how your kids see you, it's the overarching respect and kindness, I think anyway, based on my experience

I say no all the time, but I explain why. I allow them to feel their feelings and to talk about them, as a result they are very calm kids who never thrown tantrums or run amok, they know their boundaries and are happy and secure. If this is ‘gentle parenting’ then so be it. They are beautifully polite and well behaved kids.

The children they go to school with who are dragged up, who speak to adults like shit, hit other children, vandalise property and steal are modelling behaviours that they see, they are treated like shit by their parents and neglected and it comes out in their behaviour. These parents don’t care enough about their kids to put the effort in to ‘gentle parent’ they hardly parent at all.

Don’t even get me started on smacking or ‘clip round the ear’ you could go out tomorrow and commit an atrocity then get sent to prison and no one would be allowed to physically chastise you so it shouldn’t be allowed for children.

My parents hit me and I still remember the hatred I had for them, I would never want my DC to feel that about me.

Exactly!
gentle parenting is no hitting no shouting
( which is the norm in Schools and work places ) kindness and some negotiation where appropriate

you can attach any label to any parenting style and can enact it in a really effective way or follow a parenting style and be doing a shit job
unless you live with someone 100% you can only see snap shot of their parenting

you may have just seen my child kicking off refusing to get out the car this morning and me sitting there all calm and say “ ok darling have a lovely day “. When you may have shouted, threatened and punished you may have looked at me and thought way doesnt she just grab that kid by the lapels and fling them into school

lets stop judging and start pulling together as parents as a team ?

The problem is that a lot of people don't have very high emotional intelligence, don't have any understanding of child development and normal stages of development or just assume their children will grow up knowing how to be a part of society and manage themselves and their emotions without any understanding of how they influence that as parents. Or just lack the skills themselves that we should all be instilling in children (eg resilience etc).

Absolutely this - IME the people who moan most about children, being children are people who have little capacity to regulate their own emotions and think the world should bend and flex to ensure their optimal comfort at all times. Which obviously leads to a great deal of dissatisfaction and discomfort with interactions and experiences outside of their own home.

It’s ironic that those who shout the loudest and complain display the behaviours they’re objecting to, but they can’t comprehend that their attitude might be partly to blame for their own discomfort.

I hate the notion that children are “less than” because they’re small.

Yeah those aren’t natural consequences - Nat consequence of running into the road for example is getting hit, not having to hold a parent’s hand.

Gentle parenting is more about discipline in its true meaning of ‘teaching’ - see ‘disciple’. So it doesn’t mean anything cruel or harsh. Teaching from an effective and kind standpoint.

Could I ask what the difference is between the words punishment (which some seem to see as really really bad) and natural consequences are in some situations?

I have a friend who talks a LOT about her gentle parenting and also says she will never punish and only use “natural” consequences.

But some of what she does to me isn’t really NATURAL consequences. For example if her son is playing rough with a toy she will remove the toy. If her keeps running off while out she’ll either make him hold her hand or they’ll go home. If he hits another child they go home. If he won’t put a coat or shoes on they just don’t go out.

Now I’m not saying I disagree with any of her responses at all. I think they’re fine. But surely none of these things are actually natural? They are all actions decided on by her. The natural consequence would be the toy gets broken, he potentially gets lost or hurt, he gets hit back and doesn’t have any friends, he gets cold and sore feet. She may not be using true punishment either such as sending him to his room or cancelling a trip out in the future. But by not going somewhere or removing a toy at the time it’s still very similar?

I think people like to use the terms natural consequences when really it’s just them still being in charge and deciding on the form of punishment/discipline. But no one likes to use those words anymore.

As I said I don’t disagree with her methods at all. It’s just how she gets so self righteous about using gentle parenting and natural consequences and thinks other people who don’t are terrible parents etc.

You do know it's possible to not scream and shout and yet also not analyse everyone's every single feeling?

But there are problems across the board. There's a thread in AIBU at the moment by a woman who doesn't like the tone of a message from her 18 year old daughter. Some of the responses are ridiculous - suggested responses are petty, punitive, combative and retaliatory and just aren't going to elicit a positive outcome.
The problem is that a lot of people don't have very high emotional intelligence, don't have any understanding of child development and normal stages of development or just assume their children will grow up knowing how to be a part of society and manage themselves and their emotions without any understanding of how they influence that as parents. Or just lack the skills themselves that we should all be instilling in children (eg resilience etc).

👏👏👏

Exactly this. Boundaries and rules are important. Living in an environment where people are constantly on eggshells and discipline is achieved by shouting and bullying is never going to create trust and respect, only fear.

It is considered abusive when between a husband and wife: why should it suddenly be OK when its between a parent and a child. Yes the parent has absolute authority over a child in a way a spouse doesn't but ultimately a climate of fear will only incentivise children to find ways around the hurdles, as opposed to making them respect the boundaries.

Gentle parenting is nothing to do with saying No, rather it's a test of emotional strength.
It's about responding mindfully rather than a knee jerk reaction.
If you have a six foot male teenager in full rage mode because he's still learning how to handle his emotions the worst thing given do can do is mirror his negative energy by shouting and screaming back.
Firm boundaries, mindful response and open and honest conversations regarding consequences and how their behaviour affects others once everyone is calm is the best way to go.
We already have a world full of selfish unkind people, children don't always do what you say, but do tend to do what you do. If you are an angry aggressive adult chances are you'll have angry aggressive children.

@GreyCarpet do you think parents in poverty who insist on their DCs being neat and tidy, following what may seem like arbitrary rules, and having to say No a lot because they can't control their child's environment or the attitude of others... Are they not good parents?

And I also see a lot of privilege. If your family is in temporary accommodation and you're worried about your children being put into care then being clean and tidy at school is an absolute must. You fear judgement and worse.

I grew up in an abusive family and still have a lot of trauma as a result.

When my son was born, I was made homeless. I was discharged from hospital into temporary accommodation and spent a year there. I had no family support. No friends and, yes, I felt that judgement. A lot of women in the same accommodation as me had their babies removed so, yes, I feared that too. We were also physically threatened.

That was nearly 30 years ago and although my life looks very different now, there's not a day that goes by when I don't remember it or 'feel' it still.

And I still managed to be a good parent because I wanted their experience to be different to mine.

Gentle parenting simply refers to treating a child with respect and taking their feelings into account.

This.

Agree. OP is confused between gentle parenting and permissive parenting.

So either you’re a gentle parent or you beat / swear your children?

I'm 51.

I'd say I practiced 'gentle parenting'. If I had to put a label on it.

Not intentionally because my children were too old by the time it became a thing! But I grew up in an abusive household and raised in fear, shame and humiliation. I didn't want that for my own children. So I deliberately raised them differently.

There were boundaries, consequences and expectations but I've never 'punished', shouted at them or smacked them. We talked and had had restorative conversations.

They're 18 and 26 now. One is a naturally easy child, the other isn't but I've never had any 'problems' with either of them. They were both praised at school for their behaviour and emotional intelligence. One is a graduate. The other is at university. They both have a good work ethic and have both been recognised at work for their positive attitudes towards work, relationships with colleagues and initiative. They've both volunteered. They're independent, self confident and resilient.

The biggest problem I see is that, as has been said many times on threads like these, a lot of people who claim to practice 'gentle parenting just aren't parenting at all. The children call the shots, they're never allowed to be upset or feel disappointment or frustration so they never learn how to deal with those perfectly normal and unavoidable human emotions.

But there are problems across the board. There's a thread in AIBU at the moment by a woman who doesn't like the tone of a message from her 18 year old daughter. Some of the responses are ridiculous - suggested responses are petty, punitive, combative and retaliatory and just aren't going to elicit a positive outcome.

The problem is that a lot of people don't have very high emotional intelligence, don't have any understanding of child development and normal stages of development or just assume their children will grow up knowing how to be a part of society and manage themselves and their emotions without any understanding of how they influence that as parents. Or just lack the skills themselves that we should all be instilling in children (eg resilience etc).

I never saw my children as 'mine' though. I raised them to be members of society - a part of the whole. As children, I didn't see them as precious things I should 'protect' from the world at all costs. But as part of that world. And that doesn't mean I didn't protect them either. I haven't had contact with my mother for 13 years in order to protect them.

What you're saying isn't NOT gentle parenting? Gentle parenting simply refers to treating a child with respect and taking their feelings into account.

Hitting, definitely a no in our house, will involve being removed from a situation, we will also, when calm talk about what cause hitting or whatever to occur and work out how to stop it in future.

Gentle parenting doesn't mean never saying no or being permissive

I'm gentle parenting, I say no regularly 'can I have more biscuits?' 'you had a cake at lunchtime and that's enough sugar for the day, would you like a biscuit I. Your munch ix tomorrow?' if there's upset, he's allowed to be upset but he still doesn't get the biscuit. He also doesn't get yelled at, told to shut up and eff off, hit or shamed for wanting a biscuit. If he follows up that he's hungry he'll be offered other, more appropriate food.

What do you think gentle parenting is?

Do people actually just pick a parenting style and just stick with it. I feel like i do a bit of everything dependant on the situation like with sweets or toys it would be no you have ..... at home or no its nearly tea time. With violence it no would you like it if someone did that to you. But if my kids do something really out of the ordinary for them then it would be more of a sit down discussion to why they did it. Or if they suddenly develop a pattern on negative behaviour it would again be a sit down discussion to try to find out what's going on. I don't think every little thing needs a heart to heart discussion but I think somethings do. So surely instead of having a specific parenting style it's best to just parent to the situation. Also each kid is different i parent my son different to my daughters as he's a lot more sensitive

And? It’s not revolutionary not to beat your kids

I'm still not seeing much that's unique to gentle parenting!