To think “gentle parenting” is just a rebrand of being too afraid to say no?

My son has genuine medical trauma from recurrent seizures, hospitalisations and medical treatments. That's what I mean by trauma. No i do not think it's traumatizing to move away form the bed if your kids are calm and relaxed. My son would find it traumatic, he has big fears that surface at bedtime, seizures always hit when going to sleep so he was afraid to sleep for the longest time. That's all I mean, and what I mean by we parent the kid we get.

You don't have to like the definition I liked I found it helpful.

Having had this discussion on here for about the last 16 years, here's where I am now: Gentle Parenting has no central "text" or origin, (No, Sarah Ockwell Smith didn't invent it) so it's not a defined method or approach, which means these conversations will always go around in circles because everybody has a different idea of what it means and nobody can prove their point so there will never be consensus.

I used to identify with it as a label but don't any more. I've no idea when I dropped it - probably some time between 2016 and 2020. I haven't really changed what parenting approaches I use. I just don't insist that they are "gentle" and I no longer have a very strong idea of what I would say that means. I actually think what we used to call gentle parenting ~10 years ago is totally mainstream normal modern parenting advice. There is really nothing in up to date, modern parenting advice which goes against the GP principles I originally felt represented the idea. There used to be - but not so much now. Parenting advice has changed a lot.

I have also learnt a LOT more about behaviourism and have gone full circle and don't think it's totally evil any more though I do think that behaviourism as it is popularly interpreted is often overly simplistic and doesn't tell you the whole story (and sometimes that's OK - you don't always need to sit and interpret every single behaviour).

Some of the GP stuff on social media has gone the same way as everything on social media in terms of polarisation, which has strengthened the idea of it as a "brand" (identity). I don't think the identity part is helpful. I think this actually kept me away from useful advice when my eldest was younger because I was afraid that it wouldn't "fit with my parenting style". I think this is worse now because of the way SM algorithms and groupthink work, and it is causing some pockets of extreme thinking. I see a lot of parents today online worried about disordered attachment and trauma, which I never used to see. It's extremely unlikely that normal, non-abusive, non-neglectful parenting would cause these things. Even if you are addicted to a screen and struggle with anxiety. I think social media makes this worse (I like this article, even just the free part of it: Does Everyone on Reddit have OCD?)

There is a current moral panic about parenting/standards but I honestly don't think this is down to anything at all other than the fact cultural norms change, and every generation thinks children are uniquely badly behaved in the generation below (plus a crisis in schools because of many complicated reasons but probably not hugely parenting. Parents and children have not fundamentally changed.) I think there have always been crap parents, there have always been anxious parents, there have always been overprotective parents. Probably some of them are more drawn to online content which calls itself gentle parenting and some of that leads to more extreme or more public manifestations of what would happen anyway. In general I think if you took all parenting everyone is doing as a whole now compared with any point in the past it is a net gain. Collectively, I think we parent better than we used to in the past and I think it is likely to continue to improve in the future, whatever trends come and go.

Is ‘gentle parenting’ a thing? I’ve not heard of this fad.

I read a definition I liked which was that typical 90s parents were behaviourists, all parenting geared towards getting the behavior you want kid escalates so you escalate.

I'm not at all sure you understand what behaviourism means from this. Escalating when the child escalates means the child gets a chaos response (which is very rewarding to a lot of children, either those with ADHD who get a dopamine kick or those with chaotic upbringings). The best response to escalating behaviour is total calmness - neither rewarding it nor making the child feel unsafe.

I am also not quite sure you understand trauma (though TBF my DCs trauma is due to losing their birth parents at birth rather than due to any abuse), my point was that a loving parent moving gradually out of their bedroom while they drift off to sleep is not trauma. Losing a parent is trauma but a parent not coming immediately when a baby cries is not.

But since many things like CBT that are really effective in poor mental health rely on some form of behaviour techniques I'm happy to use them, and I know I do understand what's meant by behaviour techniques and I'm pretty sure a lot of people don't.

So I'm relaxed about them telling me I'm a dreadful parent.

I don't identify with this at all, teeth brushing especially as I have genetically crap teeth and I worry I've passed them on. Tooth brushing is 'your purple or green brush? (We always have a stick of brushes as buy multipacks and they like to have 2 on the go) Strawberry or mint toothpaste (sensory issues for eldest so he really can get very distressed with a flavour) then it's brush yourself or I brush for you. 9/19 times they brush and get me to finish, 1/10 times I'm holding on my knees and brushing somewhat against their will but my eldest has had to have medical procedures and kids need to know they can trust you to do the hard things if they can't. For me it's how it's worded 'can you brush ? If you're too upset I'll brush for you, I'll count to 3 and if you haven't been able to start I'll do it...

It sounds a palavar but it's 5 mins in reality and just a nice 5 mins, eldest needs to feel he has a choice, youngest just thinks teeth brushing is fun

I wanted to parent respectfully. Unfortunately I had five children, became a single parent and there just weren't enough hours in the day for hugging away everyone's negative feelings and occasionally 'because I said so' was wheeled out.

They all seem to have turned out all right, emotionally literate and with normal behaviour. Sometimes we just have to do our best in the moment and not beat ourselves up because we didn't enter a two hour negotiation about something.

See I wouldn't instinctively do the vanishing chair technique in kids with trauma, because I'd worry there was more upset below the surface than they were letting out.

My eldest has medical trauma and is neurodivergent and at 7 needs a lot of support to sleep so I know how hard sleep deprivation is.

I read a definition I liked which was that typical 90s parents were behaviourists, all parenting geared towards getting the behavior you want kid escalates so you escalate.

Gentle parenting is geared towards supporting kids to do their best.

On the whole though I think you parent the kid you have, we all have pre conceived notions of how we'll parent and I definitely didn't expect to gentle parent. It's the only thing that works for my eldest. My youngest is one of those kids I swear she could be raised by wolves and she'd come out neat, tidy and polite.tye more I gentle parent though the more I really believe in it! But if you're not abusing or neglecting your children I'm not judging I just dislike the way people portray gentle parenting and the hyperbole because it's not permissive or lazy parenting it's constant hard work and constant consistent boundaries or it should be

That's why I tried to get a definition or some minimums of gentle parenting from people but nobody has come up with anything coherent.

I don't beat my children but was chucked off a gentle parenting FB group for suggesting the vanishing chair technique because it's "traumatic".
Mate, my kids are adopted. They had more trauma in their first month than those parents will hopefully see in a lifetime. Gradually and calmly removing yourself from your child's room isn't it.

Oh definitely I was very chilled out and quiet as a child, my first born certainly wasn't, teeth brushing time was a scream fest from age 2-6. Luckily he's a boy who likes having really short hair because God only knows how much he would hate being nitcombed.

Ive noticed a lot of these gentle parenting influencers only have one child (usually really young like toddler age) and I think they've just lucked out with a compliant child and haven't realised it yet

Maybe it depends on the child? Mine always happily brush their teeth etc. And my daughter loves being nitcombed so much I have to use the comb once a week just because she finds it relaxing

I expect it is just easier to use the gentle parenting method on some children than others.

It seems like a shit show to me, I've seen the videos of "gentle parent" supporters saying they don't force their child to do anything or stop them doing anything.

Sorry but if I was to actually live life that way my child would have rotten teeth (refused to brush teeth and had to be held down for years) and would play video games all day, never do homework etc.

It's no suprise most of these advocates have one really young child and think they're parenting experts.

Wait till your child catches lice and you have to comb them out their hair or you could just not bother because "body autonomy"

Not at all, there's this weird thing from people using all kinds of gentle parenting principles that they AREN'T gentle parenting.

Gentle parenting looks different in every family, that's essentially what I'm saying. Permissive parenting ISN'T gentle parenting

Hypocrisy right there.

That's exactly what I would do with said toddler in my example. Pushing them round a supermarket whilst being calm and non stressed whilst they're "tantrumming" Is the exact real world equivalent of 'sitting with them until they're calm' . My kids are pretty well turned out, and very balanced emotionally. They're not "I want" children and never have been, they're very settled. I notice the screechy "I want" kids are normally the ones where the parent has purposefully practiced "gentle parenting" i.e (and I've witnessed it) lots of monologuing, lots of "sweethearts" to some deeply unpleasant behaviour, and "compromising" whilst smirking and looking over their shoulder to see who's watching their performance.

Honestly, this thread... There's this ridiculous assumption that everyone who isn't employing "gentle parenting " isn't actually "normal parenting" i.e being kind, considerate to your own child, validating them etc etc. do people realise that it's possible to be a decent loving, non abusive parent without employing the whole back and forth waffle for ages over a request denial to their child ?!

My children rarely tantrum with the approach I take. So the idea it feeds tantrums is very odd.

There are no lengthy monologues, why would someone being a gentle parent come with lengthy monologues? Actually when he's dysregulated there's a lot of not talking at all and just sitting with him until he's calm.

It's direct and clear language we use, what do people think is going on with parents who gentle parent?

Because for an 11 and 13 yr old you'd hope you'd laid enough ground rules that they're not constantly asking or if they are they will understand 'weve talked about this, I'm not buying anymore Pokémon cards or whatever the what's it is this week, you've had your pocket money and you chose what to spend it on' even at 7 my eldest is able to understand that

What lengthy explanation? 'you can't have that sweet, I know you're disappointed, I'll wait for it to pass' then moving on isn't a lengthy mo ologue.

Where did you get this 'lengthy monologue' nonsense?

I shouldn't imagine lengthy monologues would have worked too well for a child with additional needs either. But as I say, you do you.
They work even less well than with a child with typical understanding.

I agree with this, but I also think that it depends on the kid. Some children thrive on this, but in my experience they’re the more sensible, sensitive children who aren’t constantly asking for things that you couldn’t reasonably say yes to (sugary snack just before dinner etc). My kid is not this kid- I tried gentle parenting, but because he’s quite a demanding child, I found myself talking with him about his feelings all day because he’s gone through phases of seamlessly moving from one unreasonable request to the next. And as he put it, ‘so you’re telling me you KNOW and UNDERSTAND that I’m sad and frustrated, so why are you still saying no???’ I did my absolute best to phrase it in ways that he could ‘get’, but for him it was WAY worse than just being told no because from his point of view, if I sympathised with how he felt, and still said no, I didn’t actually care about his feelings. He’s always been happier with a firm ‘no’ and a one-sentence explanation (we’re about to eat dinner, for example).

Also found that discussing his feelings had the effect of making him hyper-focus on them and end up in a worse situation than he started in. I tried a more ‘gentle parent’ conversation with him the other day and he said ‘I’m frustrated but I’ll feel better in a minute, but if you keep talking about my feelings, I’ll feel frustrated all day! I want to be cross and then think about something else!’ That was me told 😆 Of course, I do talk to him about feelings, but trying to do it when he’s actually feeling those angry/frustrated feelings is a guaranteed way to make him explode with annoyance at me. Sadness is different, he needs supporting through those kinds of feelings so I make sure I do. Bringing him up has made me realise that he didn’t need my help to deal with anger, stomping off and a brief shout/thump around in his room was already working fine for him and he didn’t appreciate my efforts to help 😆 other children will, of course, be different. Whereas worry and sadness he needs LOTS of help with, which I readily give.

I have a friend with a very similar child and the validating and talking about feelings doesn’t work with him either. Both kids see us talking about their feelings over a ‘no’ as a sign that we’re still open to changing our minds, which is super stressful for them because they then feel like they have to keep going in case they can change the outcome, and it just escalates into a massive upset. Whereas if we’d just said no, very brief explanation and then that’s that, they would have grumped for a few minutes and then found something else to do.

On the other hand, other children I know NEED that type of discussion and would struggle with the way we do things in our family. The most important thing is to do whatever works best for you and the kids you have.

You do you. My children are exceptionally well rounded and emotionally mature thanks to my parenting.

You cannot compare a child with extra needs to what I'm describing for my child without additional needs - that's just wilful antagonism.

I shouldn't imagine lengthy monologues would have worked too well for a child with additional needs either. But as I say, you do you.

No. But if they get to 15 and have had a lifetime of lengthy explanation and compromises instead of being told "no" they're probably going to be a 15yr old you're going to have problems with.

@Barnbrack when my 13 year old talks and talks and says "please please can I have X" a hundred times or my 11 year old screams YOU'RE SO UNFAIR empathising and telling them they are so lovely does not work. It just feeds the behaviour.
Ignoring however does work. No once with a reason if relevant (I don't need to tell them that sweets are bad for their teeth or they are too young for WhatsApp, yet again, because they know). Then no further talk.

As a PP has said, tantrumming is worth it if it gets you a hug and mummy feeling sorry for you, as well as if it gets you sweets.

It really does seem to be news to a lot of parents that attention breeds tantrums.

My eldest if you'd acted like that would have been so distressed he have vomited. He has additional needs.

How are containing your 14/15 yr old? Because teaching a child it's ok to acknowledge being disappointed let's them see they are allowed to be sad. Strapping them in a buggy and ignoring them while they struggle with an emotion they don't understand teaches them there's no point telling you. Good luck strapping your 14 yr old in a buggy. The aim with giving them names for emotions is to end up with a situation where my 7 yr old can now say 'im really disappointed I can't have a toy, I really wanted that's and I can say, well we can take a photo for your Xmas list and see if you still want it by then. And on we move.

At 18 I was still describing anxiety as 'that feeling you get before an exam' when it was cropping up for non study reasons. My son can tell me when he's anxious and has tools to deal with them which is massively important in managing his ADHD symptoms and because I and his school support him with that he has amazing behaviour

My children have clear and strong boundaries and brilliant behaviour, my eldest has ADHD and a seizure disorder and STILL his school report lists his behaviour as exemplary. Because of gentle parenting.