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Great article in the Guardian about wokeism

337 replies

inkognitha · 11/06/2025 08:51

https://www.theguardian.com/news/2025/jun/10/how-does-woke-start-winning-again

Good morning everyone.
Today, even the Guardian admits woke isn’t working.

« Yet Progressive Activists’ fatal flaw, the report argues, is that they’re further from mainstream public opinion on cultural issues than they realise. They’re the only group where a majority thinks that immigration should be as high or higher than it is now, and that protecting people from hate speech matters more than defending free speech (a key rationale behind “no debate” – the idea that trans identities aren’t up for discussion – and “no platforming”). They’re also the group most likely to think social change sometimes requires breaking the law, whereas two-thirds of Britons disapprove of protesters blocking roads or gluing themselves to things.
Tryl stresses that being outliers doesn’t invariably make Progressive Activists wrong – perhaps they’re just ahead of the curve, as the suffragettes once were – but it has important tactical implications. His polling shows that Progressive Activists overestimate by a factor of two to three how much others agree with their core beliefs, from abolishing the monarchy to letting children change gender. Consequently they tend to invest too little time on persuasion, focusing instead on mobilising the masses they wrongly imagine are on board. “If you’re reaching out to people, then you’re watering down,” is how Tryl describes this mindset.
While successful campaigns usually build the broadest base possible, Progressive Activists also tend to be purists, rejecting supporters who don’t endorse a complete worldview. (More than a quarter wouldn’t campaign alongside someone who believes – as a majority of Britons do – in Israel’s right to exist, for example.) Their yearning for grand systemic change means they can sound dismissive of other people’s small but well-meaning efforts, and they’re also unusually keen on correcting other people’s “mistakes” on diversity issues, something other groups consider likely to cause embarrassment. »

I hope some of the keyboard warriors/bullies roaming this board and the blue-haired, nose-pierced authoritarians will have a read, and at last, a think on how they do more harm than good.

How does woke start winning again? | Gaby Hinsliff

The long read: British progressives have suffered major setbacks in recent years, in both public opinion and court rulings. Was a backlash inevitable, and are new tactics needed?

https://www.theguardian.com/news/2025/jun/10/how-does-woke-start-winning-again

OP posts:
Thread gallery
6
FOJN · 12/06/2025 16:33

MiloMinderbinder925 · 12/06/2025 16:27

I wasn't aware she was a communist. You're not making things up are you?

I won't do your research again, stop being lazy. Ash is very open about her communist leanings and has been for years. The fact that you don't know this tells me you have little to say that should be taken seriously by anyone.

https://youtube.com/shorts/egQpRNTyPHk?si=xLYL7CW6rPFNTxE6

GeneralPeter · 12/06/2025 16:30

MiloMinderbinder925 · 12/06/2025 16:27

I wasn't aware she was a communist. You're not making things up are you?

I think that’s a joke, in which case I’m warming to you a little 😄.

MiloMinderbinder925 · 12/06/2025 16:29

Dangermoo · 12/06/2025 16:28

🙄

Touché!

Dangermoo · 12/06/2025 16:28

MiloMinderbinder925 · 12/06/2025 16:27

I wasn't aware she was a communist. You're not making things up are you?

🙄

MaturingCheeseball · 12/06/2025 16:27

I don’t think there’s any danger of Reform getting in. The vote will be split, enabling exactly who people didn’t vote for to be elected.

Returning to “woke” I am dismayed that the ideology has penetrated so many institutions and businesses. The WASTE of money on all sorts of training schemes and bloated HR departments makes my blood boil. I was sent a dedicated form through the post from a health trust about my sexuality in response to an enquiry about an admin matter. A) irrelevant and none of their business and B) the options!! Polyamorous! Uniamorous!

MiloMinderbinder925 · 12/06/2025 16:27

FOJN · 12/06/2025 16:23

Advocate for luxury communism. Cleary there are gaps in her history education or perhaps she's arrogant enough to think if she ruled the world we'd have a better version of communism.

I wasn't aware she was a communist. You're not making things up are you?

FOJN · 12/06/2025 16:23

Dangermoo · 12/06/2025 16:19

I can't stand the woman.

Advocate for luxury communism. Cleary there are gaps in her history education or perhaps she's arrogant enough to think if she ruled the world we'd have a better version of communism.

FOJN · 12/06/2025 16:20

StandFirm · 12/06/2025 11:20

But both can be true. Bigotry may very well become acceptable quickly again and Reform's appeal can also be a reaction to the excesses you mention.

If you hold a woke world view then everything you don't agree with is bigoted.

If the UK was a generally bigoted nation then a party like the BNP would have received far more support than they did.

What has changed to cause people to start rejecting the two main political parties in favour of a party like Reform? And why aren't you thinking more deeply about that instead of assuming it's because the country has transformed into a bigoted hell hole?

Dangermoo · 12/06/2025 16:19

JasmineAllen · 12/06/2025 16:17

It's an interesting article and obviously written by someone who considers themselves 'progressive' and therefore right in their own mind. I particularly like the bit where the writer was startled that 50% of people thought you shouldn't be able to change your sex marker on tour birth certificate and passport

and this bit:

The journalist Ash Sarkar, who rose to prominence as a Corbynite activist, describes in her new book Minority Rule hosting an event in 2023 with Extinction Rebellion co-founder Roger Hallam, where he was asked what the left was getting wrong. When he responded that it was because “you’re all being fucking cunts”, Sarkar writes, uproar ensued. One activist declared herself terrified by “the ‘white anger’ in the room”, while another said Hallam had “brought violence” into the space and “everyone had been harmed”. Sarkar was left wondering how people who couldn’t cope with a sweary climate campaigner envisaged leading a revolution.

😂😂😂

I can't believe people actually talk like that in all seriousness. I love to meet one to see what they're like. I assume most of them must be at uni because my 2 uni age children often refer to something (like not emptying the dishwasher, being late when picking them up etc etc) as 'being literal violence' in a jokey mocking tone.

Edited

I can't stand the woman.

JasmineAllen · 12/06/2025 16:17

It's an interesting article and obviously written by someone who considers themselves 'progressive' and therefore right in their own mind. I particularly like the bit where the writer was startled that 50% of people thought you shouldn't be able to change your sex marker on tour birth certificate and passport

and this bit:

The journalist Ash Sarkar, who rose to prominence as a Corbynite activist, describes in her new book Minority Rule hosting an event in 2023 with Extinction Rebellion co-founder Roger Hallam, where he was asked what the left was getting wrong. When he responded that it was because “you’re all being fucking cunts”, Sarkar writes, uproar ensued. One activist declared herself terrified by “the ‘white anger’ in the room”, while another said Hallam had “brought violence” into the space and “everyone had been harmed”. Sarkar was left wondering how people who couldn’t cope with a sweary climate campaigner envisaged leading a revolution.

😂😂😂

I can't believe people actually talk like that in all seriousness. I love to meet one to see what they're like. I assume most of them must be at uni because my 2 uni age children often refer to something (like not emptying the dishwasher, being late when picking them up etc etc) as 'being literal violence' in a jokey mocking tone.

WhereIsMyJumper · 12/06/2025 16:15

ChungkingDepressed · 12/06/2025 16:14

Material reality is true, it’s not a matter of what someone thinks. You’re free to think GC people are bigots, but you shouldn’t be free to silence them, harangue them, get them fired or send rape threats to them with impunity. Call me a bigot all day long, fine, but some of that other stuff has a silencing effect and that is wrong.

Not to mention the bunnies in Wales!!!

Dangermoo · 12/06/2025 16:14

WhereIsMyJumper · 12/06/2025 16:11

People who are already wanting to vote for him already give him credit.
People who are vehemently anti-Farage are definitely not giving him enough credit, I agree.

The point being, if people don’t want him in power, they need to start taking him seriously. He’s gaining popularity. If people dont take him seriously he will be in no.10 come next GE in my opinion.

That's his aim, but I think his angling for the Tory party. It won't happen, of course but posters, who think along the it's only 5 seats lines, really are in for a rude awakening. So yes, I agree with you.

ChungkingDepressed · 12/06/2025 16:14

Ohforpetersake · 12/06/2025 16:06

Aargh. That's the point. What you think (transwomen are men) becomes True and so can be said. What others think (TERFs are bigots) becomes False and so can't be said. If you genuinely believe, as OP seems to, in absolute value of free speech then you have to accept both.

Helpfully, I don't. So I don't think there should be threats of violence against TERFs or gender crits or whatever the snowflakes want to be called this week.

Material reality is true, it’s not a matter of what someone thinks. You’re free to think GC people are bigots, but you shouldn’t be free to silence them, harangue them, get them fired or send rape threats to them with impunity. Call me a bigot all day long, fine, but some of that other stuff has a silencing effect and that is wrong.

WhereIsMyJumper · 12/06/2025 16:12

soupycustard · 12/06/2025 16:10

I thought a transwoman was an individual who was biologically male who considers that they have the gender identity of a female, so surely the very essence of a transwoman is being both a transwoman and a male. I thought that it was the interface between those two things that causes the individual to require help, understanding and validation.

This in spades.

If Transwomen are genuinely women, why would they feel the need to convince everyone else.
I don’t need to convince anyone that I am a woman because I am one.

GeneralPeter · 12/06/2025 16:12

MiloMinderbinder925 · 12/06/2025 16:01

I'm not. You seem very keen to interpret everything I say from your own perspective.

That’s why I asked a question: I’m interested what you think you are achieving, from your perspective.

WhereIsMyJumper · 12/06/2025 16:11

Dangermoo · 12/06/2025 16:05

You give Farage too little credit.

People who are already wanting to vote for him already give him credit.
People who are vehemently anti-Farage are definitely not giving him enough credit, I agree.

The point being, if people don’t want him in power, they need to start taking him seriously. He’s gaining popularity. If people dont take him seriously he will be in no.10 come next GE in my opinion.

soupycustard · 12/06/2025 16:10

I thought a transwoman was an individual who was biologically male who considers that they have the gender identity of a female, so surely the very essence of a transwoman is being both a transwoman and a male. I thought that it was the interface between those two things that causes the individual to require help, understanding and validation.

MiloMinderbinder925 · 12/06/2025 16:08

Dangermoo · 12/06/2025 16:05

You give Farage too little credit.

Sure. He's a cognitive giant.

Dangermoo · 12/06/2025 16:08

Shame nobody's listening to you - on the threats of violence, that is.

ETA @ohforpetessake

Ohforpetersake · 12/06/2025 16:08

Also, as per Kathleen Stock 'cancelled' seems to mean 'gained lucrative media career'. You can make a very cosy living in the UK out of being anti-woke. Sort of a reverse cancelling.

Ohforpetersake · 12/06/2025 16:06

Aargh. That's the point. What you think (transwomen are men) becomes True and so can be said. What others think (TERFs are bigots) becomes False and so can't be said. If you genuinely believe, as OP seems to, in absolute value of free speech then you have to accept both.

Helpfully, I don't. So I don't think there should be threats of violence against TERFs or gender crits or whatever the snowflakes want to be called this week.

Dangermoo · 12/06/2025 16:05

MiloMinderbinder925 · 12/06/2025 16:04

You give Farage way too much credit. You say Reform voters don't care, so why would what I say push them further towards Reform? Surely what I say doesn't matter. I've never known people less likely to listen to anyone, you're quite right.

You give Farage too little credit.

MiloMinderbinder925 · 12/06/2025 16:04

Dangermoo · 12/06/2025 15:54

No, I doubt that Reform voters care what you think of them - I know I don't. I said you're helping Farage because he's playing the long game and you can't even see it. Diversionary tactics.

You give Farage way too much credit. You say Reform voters don't care, so why would what I say push them further towards Reform? Surely what I say doesn't matter. I've never known people less likely to listen to anyone, you're quite right.

ChungkingDepressed · 12/06/2025 16:02

And no one is saying you can’t call someone a bigot. What most of us object to is all the women who’ve been fired and cancelled and been on the receiving end of rape and death threats just for saying transwomen are men. That’s the problem.

MiloMinderbinder925 · 12/06/2025 16:01

GeneralPeter · 12/06/2025 15:58

As someone who has 0% chance of voting Reform, I’m curious what you think you are achieving here.

There are lots of people in the world who do support Reform.

What’s the value in taking people who aren’t Reform supporters and trying to persuade them that in fact they are?

I'm not. You seem very keen to interpret everything I say from your own perspective.