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Great article in the Guardian about wokeism

337 replies

inkognitha · 11/06/2025 08:51

https://www.theguardian.com/news/2025/jun/10/how-does-woke-start-winning-again

Good morning everyone.
Today, even the Guardian admits woke isn’t working.

« Yet Progressive Activists’ fatal flaw, the report argues, is that they’re further from mainstream public opinion on cultural issues than they realise. They’re the only group where a majority thinks that immigration should be as high or higher than it is now, and that protecting people from hate speech matters more than defending free speech (a key rationale behind “no debate” – the idea that trans identities aren’t up for discussion – and “no platforming”). They’re also the group most likely to think social change sometimes requires breaking the law, whereas two-thirds of Britons disapprove of protesters blocking roads or gluing themselves to things.
Tryl stresses that being outliers doesn’t invariably make Progressive Activists wrong – perhaps they’re just ahead of the curve, as the suffragettes once were – but it has important tactical implications. His polling shows that Progressive Activists overestimate by a factor of two to three how much others agree with their core beliefs, from abolishing the monarchy to letting children change gender. Consequently they tend to invest too little time on persuasion, focusing instead on mobilising the masses they wrongly imagine are on board. “If you’re reaching out to people, then you’re watering down,” is how Tryl describes this mindset.
While successful campaigns usually build the broadest base possible, Progressive Activists also tend to be purists, rejecting supporters who don’t endorse a complete worldview. (More than a quarter wouldn’t campaign alongside someone who believes – as a majority of Britons do – in Israel’s right to exist, for example.) Their yearning for grand systemic change means they can sound dismissive of other people’s small but well-meaning efforts, and they’re also unusually keen on correcting other people’s “mistakes” on diversity issues, something other groups consider likely to cause embarrassment. »

I hope some of the keyboard warriors/bullies roaming this board and the blue-haired, nose-pierced authoritarians will have a read, and at last, a think on how they do more harm than good.

How does woke start winning again? | Gaby Hinsliff

The long read: British progressives have suffered major setbacks in recent years, in both public opinion and court rulings. Was a backlash inevitable, and are new tactics needed?

https://www.theguardian.com/news/2025/jun/10/how-does-woke-start-winning-again

OP posts:
Thread gallery
6
GeneralPeter · 12/06/2025 09:31

crackofdoom · 12/06/2025 09:25

Oh, OK, as I thought. They're anti fascists and march against fascist, hard right and white supremacist organisations. With roots in the groups in 1920s and 30s Germany who fought hard to try and stop Hitler gaining power.

I can see that they would come across as quite threatening were you a fascist, white supremacist or on the extreme right, yes 😊

That's not "as you thought". The meaning of antifa you were claiming to believe would include Churchill, Roosevelt, Stalin. No-one uses the term that way.

Reminds me of the children who would call others 'gay' at school and when challenged would say: "but gay just means happy!".

Support antifa or not, or hold some more nuanced view. But have the courage to engage in actual debate not sophestry.

Nowayyousure · 12/06/2025 09:29

TopographicalTime · 12/06/2025 08:58

I stopped reading the Guardian due to it's misogyny. Pushing trans ideology whilst ignoring the impact on women is misogyny. Celebrating 'activists' like violent criminal male Sarah Jane Baker (convicted of kidnap & torture, then whilst in prison tried to murder another prisoner) is totally unacceptable. They need to go much further and admit that a lot of trans activists are simply misogynist men's rights activists and sadly some are motivated by sexual interests in children (such as paedophile John Rennie, founder of LGBT youth scotland and many other cases)

💯 this.

The Guardian need to apologise for their huge errors. They were/are so wrong. I wouldn't touch the rag now.

WhereIsMyJumper · 12/06/2025 09:29

Absolutely this.

There are millions of people (of all backgrounds) that are hurting in this country at the moment. People struggling to put food on the table, facing homelessness, unable to afford decent childcare for their kids, barely able to afford spiralling rental
costs, fuel costs, food costs, some are breaking their backs working long shifts, aren’t able to afford breaks away, and generally are just fed up with the state of the country. At the same time, they’re being told they are ‘privileged’ and they need to care more about people seeking asylum or the environment. They don’t have the luxury to care when they can barely see past getting through until payday.

Wokism seems to be all about being ‘trendy’ - which ‘marginalised’ group can I support vehemently online so everyone thinks I’m a good person? Meanwhile, we have a homelessness problem but as the majority of people living on the streets are white males, it’s not ‘trendy’ to care.

crackofdoom · 12/06/2025 09:25

Oh, OK, as I thought. They're anti fascists and march against fascist, hard right and white supremacist organisations. With roots in the groups in 1920s and 30s Germany who fought hard to try and stop Hitler gaining power.

I can see that they would come across as quite threatening were you a fascist, white supremacist or on the extreme right, yes 😊

Dangermoo · 12/06/2025 09:23

crackofdoom · 12/06/2025 09:21

OK, looking forward to being provided with more concrete information on this! 😊

Have posted link

Nowayyousure · 12/06/2025 09:21

EmpressaurusKitty · 11/06/2025 10:08

Are you saying that when a convicted violent criminal tells huge crowds that they should be punching gender critical women, that’s just disagreement?

This. Whilst pretending he's the vulnerable one. Despicable behaviour, enabled by many.

Allthegoodnamesarechosen · 12/06/2025 09:21

‘It's a concept invented by fat white old men on the internet who want to be racist and sexist and get away with it, and by far right plutocrats and their minions who want to cause hatred, fear and division in society,’

So that’s a no, then ?

crackofdoom · 12/06/2025 09:21

GeneralPeter · 12/06/2025 09:19

@crackofdoom
I always thought that "antifa" was a general term for anyone opposed to fascism.

Yes you’ve missed quite a lot if you thought it meant that.

OK, looking forward to being provided with more concrete information on this! 😊

crackofdoom · 12/06/2025 09:20

WhereIsMyJumper · 12/06/2025 09:16

May I add, if you want people to come around to your way of thinking, insulting them isn’t the way to do it…

As a blue haired, not nose pierced, occasional authoritarian with my DC, I wholeheartedly agree. You absolutely lost me when you started on the insults.

GeneralPeter · 12/06/2025 09:19

@crackofdoom
I always thought that "antifa" was a general term for anyone opposed to fascism.

Yes you’ve missed quite a lot if you thought it meant that.

crackofdoom · 12/06/2025 09:16

Screamingabdabz · 12/06/2025 09:06

I think some animals are more equal than others when it comes to wokeism. That’s when for me, it is all about the priorities of youth, rather than genuine care for the disadvantaged.

So elderly people for example, who are being increasingly excluded from society by changes in technology - no one gives a shiny shit about them and their ‘rights’ (despite age being a protected characteristic) - I wonder how many EDI courses mention them?

And black women, get a raw deal in most bites of the cherry statistically but they’ve got to hit all points of intersectionality seemingly to even get a mention.

But if you’re a Brazilian trans sex worker WOW. You hit the jackpot. Every EDI course in every office up and down the country wants to focus on your needs and demands.

Are there many Brazilian trans sex workers in the UK office workforce, statistically speaking?

Dangermoo · 12/06/2025 09:16

crackofdoom · 12/06/2025 09:13

Could you tell me more about the "rabid group antifa"? Where are they based, what's their history, who runs them, do they have a website etc?

I always thought that "antifa" was a general term for anyone opposed to fascism. (Meaning that anyone passionately anti anti fascists would be....? 🤔) But you know, if there is a sinister global antifascist conspiracy that I'm not aware of, I'd be happy to be educated about it.

Their faces are always covered when they go out on one of their crusades. That's only the starting point. I'm not very good at putting up links, so somebody else might find something. 😊

Nowayyousure · 12/06/2025 09:16

I'll never believe that people who think you can change biological sex and that men who think they are women are actually women are 'ahead of the curve'. The pushback against that nonsense shows otherwise. People are waking up to the non science. It's bullshit and the majority know it.

As regards immigration. When poorer people see lack of housing and millions going on hotels for people new to the country and millions spent on this, they are naturally upset. Correct immigration through proper channels, where people work and integrate is vital. Seeing gangs of migrants wandering around does worry people in communities affected. Gary Lineker etc don't live in areas affected by poverty. Many struggling people see billions being spent on people from other places. That's reality.

As for the virtual signalling, with some protests and lack of understanding people need to warn a living (stopping ambulances and people going about their lives, by glueing themselves to the floor, clearly have little else to do, and many of those people are very privileged).

Then there's the Pro Pal lot, chanting slogans, showing some support for terrorismby sharing pr from terrorists unchecked, chanting about another intifada, not calling for hostage release (even threatening people who mention calling out Hamas) disruption to people's lives etc, well many switch off and avoid those areas. Cannot sort the whole world out and everything isn't the fault of the west. There's some pretty awful countries out there that would love to destroy our freedoms and way of life. Don't help them do it.

WhereIsMyJumper · 12/06/2025 09:16

May I add, if you want people to come around to your way of thinking, insulting them isn’t the way to do it…

WhereIsMyJumper · 12/06/2025 09:14

ThatNimblePeer · 12/06/2025 08:20

In practice it’s so clear when anyone uses the word ‘woke’ seriously that what they mean is ‘I resent seeing that black/gay/female person on my TV’. People who use it seem to think they’ve come up with this brilliant code that will prevent anyone detecting their racism, homophobia and sexism, but guess what, we can do the translation.

If you can show me a single ‘blue haired nose pierced authoritarian’ who is running a country and curtailing people’s rights I might perhaps start to be convinced that this was a problem worth worrying about. If you take a look at the actual authoritarians currently dominating international politics, I think you might find that they are neither blue haired, nose pierced, nor woke. Congratulations on coming up with a phrase that reads like self-parody though.

We can see right through this. “Agree with me or you’re racist/homophobic”

THIS is what the main problem is. No discussion, not wanting to listen to people’s views that are so often nuanced, you just shout people down with insults and assumptions about that person’s character. You don’t want to hear an alternate point of view. You are literally demonstrating what the main issue is with ‘woke’

Have your views and opinions, that’s absolutely fine. We can respectfully discuss or respectfully disagree but please stop resorting to accusing people of basically being evil if they don’t agree with you,

crackofdoom · 12/06/2025 09:13

Could you tell me more about the "rabid group antifa"? Where are they based, what's their history, who runs them, do they have a website etc?

I always thought that "antifa" was a general term for anyone opposed to fascism. (Meaning that anyone passionately anti anti fascists would be....? 🤔) But you know, if there is a sinister global antifascist conspiracy that I'm not aware of, I'd be happy to be educated about it.

Screamingabdabz · 12/06/2025 09:06

I think some animals are more equal than others when it comes to wokeism. That’s when for me, it is all about the priorities of youth, rather than genuine care for the disadvantaged.

So elderly people for example, who are being increasingly excluded from society by changes in technology - no one gives a shiny shit about them and their ‘rights’ (despite age being a protected characteristic) - I wonder how many EDI courses mention them?

And black women, get a raw deal in most bites of the cherry statistically but they’ve got to hit all points of intersectionality seemingly to even get a mention.

But if you’re a Brazilian trans sex worker WOW. You hit the jackpot. Every EDI course in every office up and down the country wants to focus on your needs and demands.

Dangermoo · 12/06/2025 09:06

WhereIsMyJumper · 12/06/2025 08:59

So untrue. Woke means someone shouting BE KIND OR I WILL BURN YOUR FUCKING HOUSE DOWN without realising the irony. The so-called ‘inclusive’ are currently the most exclusionary

Quite. I'm glad the article mentioned the rabid group Antifa. They have to be one of the most abhorrent hard left movements going. They are everything they accuse the right of.

WhereIsMyJumper · 12/06/2025 08:59

spoonbillstretford · 11/06/2025 09:28

Woke just means not causing deliberate offence or unfairly discriminating against or being prejudiced about group of people. It's not authoritarian or progressive but just about being a basic decent human being.

Edited

So untrue. Woke means someone shouting BE KIND OR I WILL BURN YOUR FUCKING HOUSE DOWN without realising the irony. The so-called ‘inclusive’ are currently the most exclusionary

TopographicalTime · 12/06/2025 08:58

I stopped reading the Guardian due to it's misogyny. Pushing trans ideology whilst ignoring the impact on women is misogyny. Celebrating 'activists' like violent criminal male Sarah Jane Baker (convicted of kidnap & torture, then whilst in prison tried to murder another prisoner) is totally unacceptable. They need to go much further and admit that a lot of trans activists are simply misogynist men's rights activists and sadly some are motivated by sexual interests in children (such as paedophile John Rennie, founder of LGBT youth scotland and many other cases)

FOJN · 12/06/2025 08:56

spoonbillstretford · 11/06/2025 09:28

Woke just means not causing deliberate offence or unfairly discriminating against or being prejudiced about group of people. It's not authoritarian or progressive but just about being a basic decent human being.

Edited

It's a shame that so many activists campaigning for 'woke' issues fail to meet the decent human being threshold.

Disagreeing with people is one thing but making death threats and trying to get people sacked for having different opinions is another. Woke advocats are fundamentally anti liberal. Looks like the G is finally realising that their authoritarian cry bully tactics are counter productive.

inkognitha · 12/06/2025 08:52

If you can show me a single ‘blue haired nose pierced authoritarian’ who is running a country and curtailing people’s rights

@ThatNimblePeer You don't have to run a country to curtail people's rights or act in a authoritarian way, cue the blue-haired, nose-pierced gender hordes who have tried to eradicate women by capturing the elites, taking advantage of the desire to virtue-signal from the elites and the rampant misogyny that still permeates our society. But it's not worth worrying about, is it?

Woke is a bit of a vague term, but woke does not equal being left-leaning or progressive. Imho, the Left becomes woke when it get excessive, not as much in the views they adopt but the TACTICS they find acceptable. See my post above for a non-exhaustive list.

Woke starts when left politics become a virtue-signalling religion with taboos, groupthink, rituals, discrimination, coercion, etc., and not an intellectual, respectful exchange of ideas and thoughts based on facts and experience, respecting democratic values and aiming to build a consensus with all segments of the population. That is politics, that is democracy.

And last point, it's not because there are authoritarian right-wing dictators in this world that it makes it ok for little blue-haired kids to be authoritarian as well (even with different goals).

Putting the two together like you did is actually very revealing, because it really highlights the fact that lots of woke people don't want to do politics, they want that authoritarian power. They don't see an awful dictator like a threat to democracy and the common good, they think "if Putin can do it, why can't we?"

Have a lovely, thoughtful day.

OP posts:
ThatNimblePeer · 12/06/2025 08:20

In practice it’s so clear when anyone uses the word ‘woke’ seriously that what they mean is ‘I resent seeing that black/gay/female person on my TV’. People who use it seem to think they’ve come up with this brilliant code that will prevent anyone detecting their racism, homophobia and sexism, but guess what, we can do the translation.

If you can show me a single ‘blue haired nose pierced authoritarian’ who is running a country and curtailing people’s rights I might perhaps start to be convinced that this was a problem worth worrying about. If you take a look at the actual authoritarians currently dominating international politics, I think you might find that they are neither blue haired, nose pierced, nor woke. Congratulations on coming up with a phrase that reads like self-parody though.

Swiftie1878 · 12/06/2025 08:07

SlipperyLizard · 11/06/2025 09:22

Interesting that the Guardian has covered this, but Gaby Hinsliff makes her allegiances clear (pro-woke).

She clearly thinks Robert Wintemute deserved to be cancelled (and that Guardian readers would feel the same) for views that (“startlingly” according to Gaby) 50% of the population agree with.

The Guardian is part of the problem and I don’t think this article is a sign that it will be part of the solution.

Tbf, the title of the article tells us what it’s about - re-setting their ‘marketing’ as they realise they’re losing people/not winning people over.

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